Justice Sayonara Telles Laad is the Ad-hoc District Judge and Assistant Judge, North Goa, graduated in law from G.R. Kare College of Law in the year 1987. She joined practice in the same year went on to become an Assistant Public Prosecutor in 1992. In 1996, she answered her Judiciary Examinations and has been a judge for the past 20 years. This Interview was conducted by Dietrich Almeida of GR Kare College of Law

IN THIS INTERVIEW SHE TALKS ABOUT:

• Importance of Extra curricular activities
• Criminal practice
• Changes which have impacted the legal profession

HOW WOULD YOU INTRODUCE YOURSELF TO OUR READERS?

I am an Ad-hoc District Judge-1 and Assistant Judge Sayonara Telles Laad. I graduated from G.R. Kare College of Law in 1986-87. I started practise as an advocate in 1987 before I joined as the Assistant Public Prosecutor in 1992. I joined the judiciary in 1996 as Civil Judge Junior Division and Judicial Magistrate First Class at Vasco, Sanguem, and Ponda and was later promoted as Senior Civil Judge and Judicial Magistrate First Class at Bicholim, Quepem, and Ponda. It’s been 28 years since I’ve done law.

 TELL OUR READERS A BIT ABOUT YOUR CHILDHOOD AND PRE-COLLEGE LIFE AS WELL AS EDUCATIONAL BACKGROUND. DO YOU HAVE LAWYERS OR BUREAUCRATS IN YOUR FAMILY?

I have done my schooling at Guardian Angel Higher Secondary at Sanvordem, Curchorem. Then did my Higher Secondary Schooling in Arts and completed my B.A through Parvathibai Chowgule College. I come from a family of bankers and teachers. There are bureaucrats but no lawyers in my family.

 HOW DID YOU DECIDE TO OPT FOR THE FIELD OF LAW?

Opting for law was not planned, nor was it my ambition to join the legal profession. It just happened, and I went with the flow. I was not focused like the kids now-a-days. I always wanted to study as I had the fever for answering examination. After I completed my graduation in B.A, I thought of doing M.A but in those days to pursue M.A one had to go to Panjim as it had to be done through University of Bombay. Goa University came to be established much later. As G.R. Kare college of Law was closer to home, I opted for LL.B.

 HOW HAVE EXTRA-CURRICULUM ACTIVITIES HELP YOU IN ACHIEVING YOUR GOALS?

I have always been actively involved in extra- curricular activities like sports and cultural activities and see that I keep myself active. Extra -curricular activities helped me in developing my personality, helped me in adjusting to various situations, developed patience and confidence to be a better human being and it keeps you active and your mind alert.

 DESCRIBE YOUR EXPERIENCE WHEN YOU APPEARED IN THE COURT FOR THE FIRST TIME?

Well, I guess it was like any other newcomer to any profession- mixture of surprises, apprehension, awe of the judges, the legal luminaries, the imposing atmosphere of the court, nervousness, awkwardness and a feeling of satisfaction to be associated with such a noble profession.

 TELL US ABOUT YOUR EXPERIENCE AS THE ASSISTANT PUBLIC PROSECUTOR.

I had the opportunity to deal with a number of criminal cases during my tenure as Assistant Public Prosecutor which was for about 4 years before I joined judiciary. Handling criminal cases exposed me to human tendencies, human psychology, the mind-set of victims, offenders. I felt that the victims needed much more justice than they were actually getting as there was no victim compensation awarded to the victims then as per the recent amendment which has introduced victim compensation to the victims.

 WHAT MADE YOU GRAVITATE TOWARDS JUDGESHIP?

I was an Assistant Public Prosecutor when the opportunity came to apply for the post of Civil Judge Junior Division and Judicial Magistrate First Class in Goa Judiciary. I thought that opting for judiciary would be ideal as I would be exposed to handling Civil matters besides criminal cases and a variety of cases as compared to only handling criminal cases which were limitations of the post of an APP.

 WAS, THERE ANYONE, IN PARTICULAR, WHO INFLUENCED YOU WHILE DECIDING ON JUDGESHIP?

There was no one that influenced me but I felt that judgeship is a better option for a lady in all ways as it is the next step after being an APP and a privilege to be appointed as a judge considering the nobility of the profession.

 BRIEFLY TELL US ABOUT YOUR INTEREST IN JOURNALISM.

I dabbled in journalism prior to my legal career as I had always been a voracious reader and had a flair for writing and wanted exchange of views. I wanted to change the mind-set of society to a large number of unjust social norm and superstitious beliefs. It feels wonderful to reach out to a whole group of people out there through this medium. It’s a wonderful feeling when someone says I have read your write-up or article and it was nice and thought provoking.

DO YOU FEEL THAT THE LEGAL PROFESSION HAS SIGNIFICANTLY CHANGED FROM THE TIME WHEN YOU DECIDED TO STUDY LAW?

Yes of course there are a lot of changes in this field. There is computerization and upgrading of infrastructure, newer laws like Domestic Violence Act has come, Sensitization of women Gender Acts, introduction of Alternate Disputes Forum for settling cases, Plea bargaining, appointing of Paralegal Volunteers to work from grass root level, establishing front offices with Retailer Advocates on panel for those who want free legal Aid/Advice, introduction of the mobile van for creating legal awareness and disposing matters through LokAdalats by taking justice at your doorstep.

 THE BAR COUNCIL OF INDIA IS CONTEMPLATING ON THE FORMATION OF A NEW RULE WHICH WILL REQUIRE LAWYERS TO PRACTICE IN LOWER COURTS, BEFORE ARGUING BEFORE THE HIGH COURTS AND THE SUPREME COURT. IF THIS RULE IS MADE CONCRETE, DO YOU THINK IT WILL HELP?

I think it’s a very good move indeed as the lawyers will have a good insight and in-depth knowledge of the actual practice and procedures of law and the working of the lower courts.

 WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE INDIAN JUDICIAL SYSTEM? HOW CAN IT IMPROVE ON DELIVERING JUSTICE?

I would advocate the Common Civil Code as applicable in this state to the rest of India.

 TELL US WHICH SPECIFIC ROLE WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE YOURSELF AFTER 10 YEARS?

I would be retired by then and would like to create legal awareness and crusade for settlement of cases through Alternate Dispute Redressal Forum which is introduced under section 89 of the Code of Civil Procedure through means like Arbitration, Conciliation, Judicial Settlement through Lok Adalat and Mediation.

 FINALLY, WHAT PARTING MESSAGE WOULD YOU LIKE TO GIVE OUR READERS?

I would like to stress that litigants and Advocates should be more open minded to refer matters to Alternate Dispute Redressal Forums and make sincere efforts to settle the cases as settlement of cases is cost effective and time saving and bring about peace and happiness.

Akanksha Rajpurohit graduated from Rajiv Gandhi University of Law, Patiala (2007-2012). At present, she is a partner at “The Legist”. Earlier she worked as an associate at “The Legist”, at K.G. Bhagat & Co. and United Lex Corporation.

In this interview she talks to us about:

• Why she chose IPR and Business Law as her specialization subjects.
• Pros and cons while shifting from a hard core litigation law firm to a LPO.
• Her experience at the present law firm “The Legist”.
• How she became the youngest partner at “The Legist”.

How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

I am a lawyer who never stops believing in herself. I have my staunch faith in one thought that there is a silver lining beneath every effort we take in life and fulfillment of our dreams are directly proportionate to those efforts. I am a mixture of ambitions and goals. I am a traveler on holidays and a go getter on weekdays. I also believe in constant change but that change must get us to a better place otherwise it is of no good.

What prompted you to think of law as a career? If not law, what other options would you have considered for your career?

I never dreamt of becoming a lawyer or having a career in law but I do remember my parents teasing me to become a lawyer because I was good at arguing. I always wanted to be a dancer or a fashion designer or to do something that people call me an artist. My parents had the fear that I wouldn’t survive the struggle so they did not let me go for something very unconventional. Although I still am an amazing dancer. I never wanted to do engineering or become a doctor. I researched about National Law Schools’ five years integrated course. I wanted to change my life upside down, to explore, to learn something new hence, I did not choose law, law chose me. But I made sure that I shouldn’t let down my destiny and karma both.

Where did you do your internships while at law school? How important were these internships in shaping your career?

Mostly I interned with practicing advocates and law firms. I have no legal background or support so I never had any reference. I even used to feel very shy to ask someone to put in word for me anywhere. I decided to work it out on my own. My first important internship was in third year of my graduation, at K.G. Bhagat & Co., New Delhi. I learned a lot there and worked with all honesty and sincerity. I worked on various writs and TDSAT matters. I was given a pre placement offer by the firm. Further I interned with Bhasin & Bhasin, Paras Kuhad & Associates, Aggarwal Law Associates and these places actually showed me the real picture of the coming future struggle, the struggle my parents were trying to save me from. I had no option but to get through it. Internships are very important for one’s career and more than that, how you exploit yourself in an internship is important. I knew if I sweat now I am going to make my future glorified. I did not want to waste my time running after big corporate law firms because I wanted to grow at a place where I put some bricks as part of the foundation and where I cannot be replaced by anyone. These internships gave me confidence, motivation and made me hungry to beat everyone including my own past achievements and win every battle. Internships also generated a networking chain, which duly helped me time to time while taking career decisions. Last but not the least, it is very important to leave a good impression at a place where one interns.

Why did you choose IPR and Business Law as your specialization subjects in the fourth year of graduation?

Honestly I chose IPR and Business Law because I understood them the most and it had the widest scope to work on. I am inquisitive about IPR. I must confess while choosing these subjects for specialization, I kept the market position in my mind. The competition was less in IPR as there were not much law firms which were dealing in this subject, they are still less as compare to the other areas of law. I also knew this subject is the future boom in our country and most importantly I liked this subject. Business law was an important addition to my profile with IPR so the combination was perfect for me. I also find Law of Human Rights interesting and I will definitely work in that area as well.

Please share your experience of being a Convener of Cultural Committee and secretary of Alumni Association at RGNUL.

The human nature is very hopeful and full of high spirits. We try to do all those things that make us unique and little ahead from others. To be part of the Cultural Committee and Alumni Association was that little step for me which made me unique and kept me little ahead from others at the same time. I always believe that every person should express what they feel and what they want to say. Being the Convener it was my duty to give people that time where they can laugh and enjoy and spend some moments not for what they will be but what they are. When I was appointed as secretary of Alumni Association at RGNUL, it actually satisfied and also motivated my needs and ability to act as a leader. It was a great experience for me because it made me a person who I am today, more confident, striving and more ambitious.

What are the pros and cons while shifting from a hard core litigation law firm to a LPO?

It was very important for me to know what exactly I wanted to do. University life was very easy but the real struggle starts when you are on your own and when the decisions that are going to change your life are to be taken by yourself. I never planned a long future or a strategy in my life. I live one day at a time. I believe in exploring until we find a place where we can grow. I joined a litigation law firm, where timings were not fixed and work is the only criteria to judge your worth. I was enjoying my work but I wanted to explore other areas as well, before I jump into some serious competition, I joined United Lex, which cleared the picture of corporate environment, working with 400 people at a time. This place taught a great deal of life that do something not because it’s worth doing for others but do it because it’s worth doing for yourself. While working here I realized I cannot work in a LPO and this place is not meant for me. The pros were that I was working five days a week, with good money and fixed timings, made a lot of friends but work wise, I was not satisfied. I needed more in that so I left the LPO and joined The Legist.

Please share your experience at the present law firm “The Legist”.

I was fighting with my stability issues in professional life. I joined The Legist, in November, 2013 and I remembered promising to myself that even if every day is a bad day working here, no matter how bad the circumstances become, I will not leave this job before July, 2015. I stood by my decision and I feel very fortunate to be part of “The Legist” family. It gave me a place for myself to stand among very influential and renowned IPR lawyers. The Legist is not only a place where I could learn and polish the professional skills but it also made me a better person overall.

How did you become the first youngest partner at “The Legist”?

I knew I am going to achieve something like this in my life someday but I never knew it’s going to be this soon. When I joined The Legist I was given full space to learn things from basics which included all the love and bashing from seniors. After spending good number of days there, liberty came in my pocket to grow, to take all the decisions of the profile I was working on. The Legist and I connected by one thread called ethical practice and that built a mutual faith between us. I never believed in just individual growth, I wanted to grow with this place, by letting it grow. I have my dreams for this place, which I never had to express by words but my actions were well enough for my team to understand that. I completed my 2 years working at The Legist and it came as a new year surprise for me in 2016 when I was offered partnership. I am prodigy of Mr. Pramod Kumar Singh, one of the founding partners of The Legist. But the proposal came from the business partner Mr. Kirat Singh and it was a lot more proud moment not only for me but for my mentor as well.

How did you contribute in the work of “The Legist Foundation: a charitable trust to spread legal awareness”?

The Legist Foundation is a thought which not only cultivates the social mind but also spreading legal awareness among public at large. The trust is built up to provide free legal aid to poor litigants who cannot fight for their rights. We also make people aware about the anti-counterfeiting and their side effects by conducting conferences, seminars, workshops etc.

Where do you see yourself five years from now?

As I said I live one day at a time so it is hard to tell where I would be or see myself five years from now but one thing I am sure of, that the work I would be doing then, will never be done by someone else as I do, and the position I would be at will be quite high.

What would be your parting message to our readers?

I admire the struggle because that makes us stronger so if you face it, you shouldn’t worry but work to get through it. Struggle leads us to a place where we call our dreams a reality. So remember if someone calls you ambitious it is a better compliment than someone calling you successful because it starts with one dream and never ends.

Vikram Raghavan graduated from NLSIU, Bangalore with eight gold medals in diverse fields of law in the year 1997 and then went to pursue his masters from New York University. Right after that he started work as an attorney at O’Melveny & Myers, an international law firm in New York City.

Currently Vikram is currently a Lead Counsel at the World Bank in Washington, DC, and he advises on conflict, fragility, refugees, and macroeconomics. Among other things, he provides legal advice about military coups; United Nations sanctions; debt relief; and loan conditionality. He has authored a book titled Communications Law in India (LexisNexis, 2006) and co-edited a volume of essays: Comparative Constitutionalism in South Asia (Oxford University Press, 2013). His articles are reflected in The Hindu and Economics and Political Weekly.

In this interview he talks to us about:

• Choosing law as a profession and his experience at NLSIU, Bangalore and New York University;
• The art of managing life at law school and to develop interests in different curricular activities;
• His formative years as a lawyer and his time at O’Melveny & Myers, New York City.
• His early life at World Bank as a counsel and moving ahead and becoming the lead counsel at the World Bank.

What made you opt for law as a career?

Well, I was always interested in argumentation. My father was a lawyer and my grandfather was a lawyer as well. But the family profession, so to speak, influenced my decision only so much. When I was about thirteen years old, I read Prashant Bhushan’s book “The Case That Shook India.” I always wanted to do what he did and what he described about the court room drama.

However, it wasn’t an easy decision because at that time law was not considered to be a prestigious profession. The National Law School had just started and not even a single judge had graduated. So, there was a lot of uncertainty about it and ultimately, the fact was I didn’t want to do science. I had taken commerce and my only options were doing economics, commerce or something else entirely. So, law looked like an attractive idea because NLSIU had just started. I gave myself a year to see if law suited me, if it had not- I guess I had an option of coming back to economics.

Could you tell us about your life before you joined college? Where did your interests lie during your school days?

During school, I was a stamp collector first and foremost. Philately, as a hobby, shaped my interest in world events and in general knowledge. I also obtained a lot of confidence in public speaking by speaking at the South India Philatelists Association’s second Sunday meetings in Madras. Everyone who attended had to speak. So it was a nice way to get rid of adolescent stage fright.

What curricular and extra-curricular activities did you participate while being in university?

Well, it was an intense period of five years. The schedule of studies, as you would know, at any National law school is quite demanding. There are deadlines for something or the other, every other week — project submissions, moot courts, mid-terms, and end terms. So I spent most of time by trying to catch up and be on top of the different deadlines that would come.

Of course, when I was in college, there was no proper Internet. The campus itself did not have many facilities besides the library, which closed at 6.00 p.m. And you could borrow only three books. So I couldn’t say I was very productive. But during those five years, I tried my hand at different things. In my first two years, I did judo at the Sports Authority of India campus near the Law School. I tried my hand at quizzing, but there were much better quizzers at the law school than me. To be sure, there were other extra-curricular activities at NLS like sports and debates. But then again the school was filled with many talented students from the best schools in India. I simply did not have the background or training in high school to compete with them.

The incentive system in the law school was also skewed in favour of mainstream academic excellence. There were three big things you did if you wanted to be noticed: moot courts, grades, and articles. So, basically I spent those five years trying to get good grades. And you know I don’t regret those five years. What I am today is due to those five years of hard work.

Could you tell about your internship experiences? What sort of internships did you prefer and what learning experiences did you gain from it?

Well, I did four internships in those five years. The first one was an internship with  R. Gandhi, which involved working on a lot of constitutional law matters. Among others, I worked with T. Sivagnanam, who is currently a judge at the Madras High Court and on the law school’s governing council as well I think. I also interned with N. Paul Vasanthakumar, the current chief justice of Jammu and Kashmir as well Ravi Chandra Babu, who is also now a judge. These judges were the three lawyers who I worked most closely with during my first internship. The second internship was in the Madras High Court focusing on criminal law under N.T Vanamamalai, a senior advocate. In my fourth year, I worked with K.K. Venugopal and in my fifth year I went to Sri Lanka to work with the Tamil leader, Dr. Neelan Tiruchelvam on the constitution-making process.

Straight after your under-graduation you went abroad to pursue masters at New York university. What was your experience at NYU and what all differences did you notice in quality of education at NLSIU and NYU?

Well, obviously the facilities over NLSIU were rudimentary. New York University had a lot more facilities. The library was out of this world and the NLS library in those days was still getting built. In those days, we didn’t have the internet so, you know things were different. Also American law schools are rigorous. They put a lot of effort into preparation before class. So, if you don’t read up and come to class then it would be difficult for you to follow.

Could you please tell us about the skills and preparation needed for the moots, building arguments and the way to read a judge’s mind and what are the criteria’s a judge chooses to mark the participant?

(Vikram has represented India at Philip C. Jessup moot court competition and he also served as the executive council member till the year 2011.)

Mooting is something that I strongly recommend because I think it really helps in court craft and you it helps you dig deep into a legal subject. When I was a law student there weren’t so many moots like you have today. More number of moots are opportunities for people to learn and explore. Eeveryone at NLS has to compete internally first for it, and the internal competitions were in itself very intense. These competitions conducted across the different classes, which meant you had to argue against the seniors who know more law than you do.

This was a good process, because it forced you to basically go out of your comfort zone and learn new things very quickly. Participating in the Jessup, no doubt, enhanced my interest in international law. Probably my career today is based on that experience.

You have been an associate at O’Melveny & Myers LLP, An International Law firm. Could you please tell us the experience there?

That was just after NYU. I spent three years at O’Melveny. I worked on corporate and transactional work and also some litigation, basically international arbitration. It was a very intense experience, because U.S Law firms practice law in a way that is very demanding.  I think the main thing for me was to be able to practice law with very smart lawyers and clients.

You were the editor of NYU Journal of International law and politics. Could please tell us the role you played and what all things did you achieve during your tenure as an editor?

I wasn’t the editor. A friend of mine was an editor. I was just a graduate editor. If you look at the cover page it has many editors and editor is mostly just a title. I was involved in proof reading some of the articles. I don’t know what the editorial process is like now in Indian law school but it was certainly different from what we did at NLS. At NYU, a lot of care and attention was taken to ensure that the articles are selected properly and carefully formatted and cross-checked. It is a very rigorous exercise.

Could you please tell us about your recruitment at the World Bank and initial days of work? Is it possible for a law student to get an internship at the World Bank?

(Vikram started at World Bank as a counsel and now he is the lead counsel of operational policy at the World Bank.)

After three years at a law firm, I applied for and got hired as a counsel at the World Bank. When I came first here, I was given Sri Lanka and Nepal and later Afghanistan and Iraq. That experience was really worth in a way shaped my profile at the bank, working with conflict prone countries, and more unstable countries. I think it was an exciting portfolio for any lawyer to do because it has a mixture of law and policy. Working on a World Bank project is, in itself, a very challenging and rewarding thing. Sadly, we don’t offer regular internships at the World Bank’s legal department. Most of our interns come from institutional partners like NYU who pay the students a stipend. The World Bank does not have the budget nor can we take unpaid interns.

Could please tell us how to develop writing skills to our readers who are mostly law students?

(Vikram has authored a book on communications law in India and co-edited volumes of essays on comparative constitutionalism in South Asia, his articles are reflected in the editorial columns of The Hindu and Economic and Political Weekly.)

I would recommend students read the work of Bryan A. Garner. He advocates writing simply and elegantly. Read his work. And you will write very differently. I guarantee it.

How did you to continue to maintain the love for history, economics and law, despite such hectic schedule in life?

It is always a challenge. Every day, every minute you have to find time to do different things.

What would be your message to the young law students and budding lawyers?

Well keep working hard, and I believe whoever keeps working hard basically succeeds. It doesn’t matter what school you go to or what grades you get, your hard work helps you. Gain expertise in the subjects that interest you. Build a brand for yourself.

Prashant Chandra graduated from Campus Law Centre, Faculty of Law, University of Delhi in 2011. He is a diligent and well read lawyer with acute legal acumen and professional commitment.
With more than 3 yrs into litigation, he has handled the panel work of ICICI Bank, HDFC Bank, HDFC Standard Life Insurance Co., TATA AIA Insurance Co., Future Generali Life Insurance Co. and Aviva Life insurance Co. before various Forums/NCDRC along with trail in civil disputes viz. recovery, service, property matters before Delhi High Court and various District Courts of Delhi. At present, he is working as an associate at Vox Juris.

In this interview he talks to us about:

• Challenges he faced as an advocate in Delhi High Court.
• Importance of mooting and academic writing.
• Difference between a practice in a High Court and the Supreme Court.
• How he decided to write his book “The Tumult over Law of Homosexuality”.

What would be a brief introduction of you?

I am a first generation lawyer. I am dedicated towards my work and very passionate for litigation. I come from a family of academicians and government employees. Throughout my student life I have been very active in various extracurricular activities and been involved in different vocations. I did LL.B. as 3yrs law course after my graduation so I had enough time to be involved in different professions. After having experience in different fields, I finally chose litigation as profession since it keeps me in a constant phase of motivation, gives me a chance to daily improve myself and achieve whatever I desire.

Please elaborate on the motivating factors which helped you in choosing legal studies.

Throughout my life I have been inquisitive about only two aspects related to anything- Firstly, the science behind a particular thing and secondly, the logic behind existence of that particular thing in that particular form. The science part involves all the technical knowhow of invention and things related to chemistry and physics whereas the logic part involves all the issues related to the rules/law governing that particular thing.

Simply put, whenever I use any object, say a pen, the first two questions which come in my mind are: (1.) How that particular pen was crafted viz. ink put in a sleek tube/refill, writing tip made etc. (2.) Who determines the specifications related to a pen, what standards are to be maintained, what size and characteristics of a pen should be set, so as to give it a standard definition. When we look answers for such questions, we find that there is a Ball Point Pens and Refills Committee, formed by Indian Standard Institution regulating the manufacturing details of ball pens. Since I couldn’t cope up with chemistry, I decided at the initial stage of my career that I’d pursue my career in a direction which doesn’t involve studying science and would devote my time in answering the second question i.e. knowing the law governing the society.

Were there any activities you participated in that honed your skills as a litigator? How are they relevant now?

In 1^st year of LL.B., I was able to qualify as a member of Moot Court Society, CLC, Faculty of Law, University of Delhi. Later on I kept myself engaged as participant as well as volunteer in other Moot Court Competitions organized in Faculty of Law. In 2^nd year of LL.B., I did internship in Supreme Court of India. In 3^rd year, I did internship in District Courts of Delhi and for two months in Dehradun District Court also.

How did you prepare for the Bar in a span of a few months?

I collected the material and question papers of previous years AIBE from my friends and prepared accordingly. It’s an open book paper so I also took those books and few bare acts. While preparing for AIBE along with the main portion of law one should focus on the practical aspect of law viz. limitation periods, date of amendments, punishments prescribed for major offences, authority of judges etc.

What are the challenges of being an advocate in the Delhi High Court?

Yes, it’s true that being an advocate in Delhi High Court is quite challenging because there is a lot of competition in Delhi High Court. But the presumption that a first generation lawyer cannot survive in Delhi High Court is a myth. The merit is always appreciated in Delhi High Court, if you are well read and prepared to present your case the way it should be presented, then you will definitely get the relief you desire. The quote; “first deserve then desire” is applicable in its strict sense in Delhi High Court.

What are the main types of cases you focus on?

My area of litigation is writ petitions/appeals/LPA/revision etc at High Court of Delhi and all type civil matters viz. cases related to contracts, specific performance, service matters, executions etc. Recently I have also started practicing at criminal side with few astute and experienced lawyers having vast experience of criminal trial.

What is the most challenging case you ever faced? Is there any case that changed your perspective on the judicial system?

The most challenging case I ever faced was in Supreme Court of India related to service matter, termination of a Class I officer on grounds of alleged misconduct. The most challenging part in that case was its 6 years of dismissal owing to incomplete and improper presentation of case in several rounds of litigations before Delhi High Court and also few applications at Supreme Court. However, at the stage of SLP, after thorough research, precise drafting and proper presentation of the case I along with other advocates of my team, were able to get the desired relief and was able to get that employee reinstated from the Supreme Court of India. Further, I am a firm believer that our judicial system is fair and reasonable with eminent judges sitting at the helm of Justice and there has not been any case which could change my perspective on the judicial system.

How important do you think mooting and academic writing are for a law student aspiring to become an advocate?

Mooting is very important for a student who aspires to become a lawyer. It gives you confidence, exposure and removes your hitch to present your case. Mooting helps you become an advocate and experience what lies ahead of you, even before clearing your exams. As far as academic writing is concerned it is also helpful to supplement your research. Instead of only discussing a case law at tea stall or criticizing some High Court/Supreme Court judgment, a law student should step up and try to write a case comment or article on any High Court or Supreme Court judgment, on issues of his/her choice.

Many students aspire to practice at the Supreme Court and High Courts. Should a student first practice at the Trial Court to learn the nuances, or is it fine to start at a High Court itself?

My advice to all my juniors has always been to do internship in Supreme Court, High Courts and for that matter in Law Firms also, while you are pursuing LL.B. But once you are enrolled as an advocate, don’t skip the trial court/district courts. Everyone should always give at least 1-2yrs in district court; the main practice is learned in trial court only. High Court and Supreme Court are extension of what you practice in lower courts. If you once skip this initial step you will spend most part of your career in learning what could have been learned in initial 2yrs of your practice. And the best part of practicing in Delhi is that all the district court lawyers here do have some matters at High Court/Supreme Court also, giving you a fair exposure in your initial period of litigation. Moreover, if you start your own practice, initially people will bring to you lower courts matters.

What are the differences that you see between a practice in a High Court and a practice in the Supreme Court?

The major difference what I see between practice in High Court and Supreme Court is that of the Judges. The judges of Supreme Court being more senior and experienced asks precisely very limited questions to clear the doubts and form an opinion so that justice could be done in the matter whereas in High court, while delivering justice, the judges are more inclined in the quick disposal of matter so you have to be pro active and precise while presenting your case.

How did you decide to write your book “The Tumult Over Law of Homosexuality”?

While I was pursuing my LL.M. from Delhi University the case of Suresh Kumar Kaushal v. Naz Foundation was decided wherein the Hon’ble Supreme Court upheld the constitutional validity of Section 377 IPC, leaving it on the legislature to amend Section 377 in its own discretion and wisdom. Then there were numerous debates and pointless discussions everywhere since the question is related to legal restrictions on privacy and liberties of people. But in all those debates and discussion, people overlooked a crucial aspect that simply amending Section 377 IPC will not serve the purpose unless the same is done as a complete societal change; to which our present society is not completely ready and the infrastructure is not enough, so I have opined that the debate on Sec 377 IPC should be deferred for some time now and status quo should be maintained until we are prepared for such a drastic change. My book deals with varied issues and concerns connected to Homosexuality and LGBT Rights. Through different chapters I have tried to cover up issues related to historical, social, physiological, legal and constitutional problems which crops up when we talk about LGBT rights. I have dealt with different issues which people usually forego but such questions shouldn’t be abjured when we talk about LGBT Rights. Through last chapter I have tried to differentiate between society’s demand of decriminalizing consensual acts covered under Section 377 IPC and its actual needs in case Section 377 IPC is amended. I have thoroughly dealt with various landmark cases viz. Naz Foundation (Delhi High Court, 2009), Suresh Kumar Kaushal (Supreme Court, 2014), NALSA (Supreme Court, 2014) and Obergefell v. Hodges (U.S. Supreme Court, 2015) on the subject matter.

Are there any suggestions you would like to give our readers?

For students and aspiring advocates I will suggest, reading of case laws from recent law journal whenever you get time. Advocacy is a unique profession and noble at the same time. It takes time and for first generation lawyers it becomes more struggling. Initial 1-2 yrs are most struggling, testing your patience and determination but if you don’t give up everything will be better by the time. But never forget that sky is the limit in litigation, you just have to be willing to fly as high as you want.

Vedula Venkata Vyagraeshwara Sastry graduated from South Calcutta Law College (2006-2011). At present, he is working with Khaitan and Co. as a Senior Associate. His areas of practice include litigation (both civil & criminal), Dispute Resolution, Banking laws, Litigation & Corporate Advisories, Legal drafting & Legal research, General Corporate and Admirality matters.

In this interview he talks to us about:

• His experience at Khaitan and Co. till now.
• Main areas of law he deals with.
• Recruitment process at Khaitan nd Co.
• Advise to law students who suffers difficulty in finding their area of interest.

As a senior associate in Khaitan and Co., what is the work experience you have gathered till now?

I consider myself lucky as I had the opportunity of starting my career from Khaitan & Co. and with the guidance of my mentor, Mr. Arvind Jhunjhunwala, Senior Partner of the firm all throughout, I got immense opportunities to work on new and interesting matters. Presently, I shall complete my five years in the firm this December 2016, however, I would say my extra three years exposure to work during my college days at the firm was more fruitful. Right from my early days in the firm till today, I am getting involved in variety of work and which includes  Civil matters, Company Matters Arbitration matters, Insolvency Laws, Constitutional matters Admiralty matters, Environmental matters, Consumer matters, Matters under the MSME Act, Testamentary matters, Matters relating to Debt Recovery Laws and Criminal matters.

More importantly, my mentor always used to lay emphasis on two things First) all litigation lawyers working in a firm should make an endeavor to act and represent client’s in court with the limited assistance of Independent Counsel and should not act a Post office.  I have taken full advantage of this, and have started appearing and  arguing before Courts and also before various tribunals starting from DRT’s, CLB now NCLT , NGT, Estate Officer right from my trainee days and this is very important. I still remember that during my early days, I happened to appear before DRT to seek an adjournment on the ground of my colleague (who was in charge of the matter) and who was not present on that day. I thought it is simple so I agreed.  I was new then, was not even aware of the matter and I simply went and submitted the same. The LD member after hearing me has just said that “…Your client has admitted the dues, so I am passing an order directing your client to pay…” I was speechless, could not even react and accordingly the LD DRT passed an order directing my client to deposit around fourteen crores. From that day I decided that I will never endeavor to pray for adjournment and shall always endeavor to be fully ready and argue the matter. I must say that matter taught me the lesson to fight and after that the banks have resorted to various forums to recover the amount but I always stood in their way and ultimately the matter got settled but it was an experienceand b) Second, we should always be ready to accept the work and render our service even at the eleventh hour. I still remember that for my first matter, I had to work the whole night of 31^st December 2011, and 1 January 2012, though my friends were enjoying the new year party  but  then I realized that this is the real challenge which as litigation lawyers we should be ready to take and still today, I do the same.

What are the main areas of law that you deal with? What does a senior associate have to do at a big law firm like this?

I am not a specialist lawyer and I do all things which come across. My main forte includes civil matters, Company Matters Arbitration matters, Insolvency Laws, Constitutional matters Admiralty matters, Environmental matters, Testamentary matters, Matters relating to Debt Recovery Laws, Consumer matters, Matters under the MSME act and Criminal matters.

As a Senior Associate the responsibility is to ensure that you give the best service to your client. We should try and aim a situation where the client should repose full faith in the decisions and strategy advised by us. Once, a client is happy with the work and the service that would automatically pave way for new clients without any display of PR skills.

What skills and qualities do you think have helped you achieve your current position and stature?

First is hard work. There is no substitute to hard work. We all may not be intelligent but we should be hard working. I always wanted to be a lawyer and I love what I do and I work  hard for it and  Second is the Assistance you get from your mentors, I have been lucky that I go the guidance of eminent legal professionals, to name them, My Senior Mr. Jhunjhunwala,  Mr. S N Moookherjee, Senior Advocate, who allowed me to attend his chamber and to use his library after my work hours at the firm and have always guided me and and Mr. Anirban Ray, Advocate who always guides me in resolving the  legal problems. They all have provided me with quality guidance and have extracted the best out of me.

What is your opinion when people say that all they have learnt is in their years of practice? What was the case in your situation?

I agree to this as the same applies to me. Practice makes a man perfect and for lawyers both corporate and litigation it is the practice and application of law which grooms them. In college days, we don’t even realize as to how the real world would be and this system has to change. Education needs to be more precise and simple. The authorities should endeavor to act in a manner that every individual who graduates law must be in sync with the practical reality of life. Life in college is different then what exactly it appears when one chooses to join litigation and to act as a Counsel. The dimensions of life vis-a-vis in the present competitive world requires a robust system of education and learning which will make law graduates more self-sufficient

Please tell us the recruitment process at Khaitan and Co.? How did your appointment take place?

I believe our office has campus recruitment, where students studying at different law schools are selected. I have also seen lateral hires. So it all depends. Since I was associated with the firm since my college days, and was shaping up well, so maybe I got recruited after I graduated law in the year 2011 itself.

What changes has being a senior associate brought into your life, do you ever feel that there is excess of work load on you?

I do not feel any change. Life is the same. I always want more work as I do not like to sit idle and also do not like to keep things pending. I wish we had a day more than 24 hours, so that I can devote substantial time what I love doing.

Have you ever considered litigation or starting up on your own? Would you say the opportunity a firm provides for a young lawyer is worth the trade off in building reputation?

I am enjoying what I am doing and the  level of freedom  that my   mentor has entrusted me at work  cannot be compared so  idea  of doing independently never came across to my mind till now.

You are working with Khaitan and Co. since your college days. What would you say contributes to the high attrition rate of the top law firms?

It depends to person to person and also largely on the individual goals a person has for himself. Higher attrition rate is everywhere and nothing particular with law firms.

Lots of students find it very difficult to find their area of interest. What would be your advice to law student or young lawyer who is suffering from this dilemma?

Read well. And focus on what you want to be and aim for that. Never lose hope and always keep trying. Please try and aim what you want to be. Identity your strengths and weakness as this shall help you to focus on the areas which needs more attention. Enjoy your college learning days but at the same time also pursue your dream.

Where do you see yourself ten years down the line? Do you aspire to be like somebody from this field?

Ten years too far, Honestly, I have not planned that far. Presently, I want to be the most sought after lawyer by continuing what I am doing.  I want to make sure every client who comes to me is satisfied with the quality of services and that should pave way for new opportunities of assisting new client’s.

Trupti Kulkarni graduated from University Law College, Bangalore in 2005. She joined Accenture Services Private Limited where she worked for an Insurance Process handling Motor Insurance Claims. She also worked with Honeywell Technology Solutions and TPI Advisory Services handling Contract Management.
At Vahura, Trupti used to head recruitment at senior and mid- level, for corporates and law firms, concentrating on South India. She has regularly worked on General Counsel and Senior Management positions in the IT, infrastructure, manufacturing, pharma, FMCG space. More recently she has moved on to internal functions within the organisation focusing on Candidate Engagement and Employee Motivation initiatives. She also handles internal recruitment at Vahura.

In this interview she talks to us about:

• What prompted her to join Vahura.
• Impacts on her after joining Vahura.
• How legal education and training helped her in the present role.
• Advice to a young lawyer if he/she wants to tread the alternate career path.

How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

I am a lawyer by training and a HR professional by choice. I passed out of the Bangalore University Law College in 2005. I am a second generation lawyer. My father is an advocate with more than 35 years of practice at the Bar. He handles matters pertaining to Writ Jurisdiction, Service and Constitution among others. My brother and sister-in-law are also lawyers. My brother works as an In-House lawyer while my sister-in-law has taken a break from active practice. So, in a way, I am the lawyer who took the bypass route J  I worked in-house with Accenture. Honeywell and did a brief stint with a company called TPI Advisory Services where I handled contract management. For more than 6 years now I have been working with Vahura where I have had the opportunity to don many hats and to prove myself in areas which have been new to me. I am also a mother of 2 and hence am on a constant balancing act.

What prompted you to think of law as a career? If not law, what other options would you have considered for your career?

Like I mentioned, I come from a family of lawyers. Dinner conversations are usually about all the court room drama and about how legal issues could have been handled differently. Some of my earliest memories from childhood are about clients walking in to our home cum office, even on Sundays, to have a discussion with my dad. Infact he has been and will always be a deep influence in my life. My dad gave up a Central Government job with the Telecom Department (8 years to be precise) to study law and to start afresh. Through sheer determination and hard work he established himself in the field to get to where he is today. With such a role model it only seemed natural for me to follow the same path. Even before I could complete my pre-university from the prestigious Mount Carmel College in Bangalore, I knew I would be studying law for the next 5 years. Now when I look back, I think that if I hadn’t tread this path, I would probably have gone on to obtain a degree in Communication Studies or Psychology at Mount Carmel and would be in a role related to either of them.

What prompted you to change the track and join Vahura?

My family always knew that I was more of a people’s person- someone who would be good at people interaction and counselling. I guess I took some time to realise what they already knew. By the time I had changed 3 jobs I was starting to feel that there was something missing. I was a trained lawyer so I didn’t want to be completely out of the profession, but at the same time I felt that I should be doing something different and unconventional. I was not sure what that was, though. One day, on my brother’s suggestion, I got onto the Vahura (then a part of Rainmaker) website to hunt for a job. Instead, I was more curious to read about the team there and what they did. What I read about them intrigued me. Suddenly, the missing piece of the puzzle seemed to fall in place. I contacted Vahura to ask if they were hiring. Although, they weren’t at that point of time, they reached back to me a few months later. There has been no looking back since then.

What is the reaction of people when they hear about what you do, especially friends and family?

I have been with Vahura for quite some time now and so most people who know me, know what I do as well. In a way, Vahura and my role here has become a part of my identity. Friends and family are generally curious to know what I mean when I say I work for a legal talent management firm. They want to understand how it works and what the business model is. Most of them usually find it interesting and say that they didn’t know something like this existed! A lot of them find what I do pretty cool and have even asked me if we would be hiring.

Do you miss a corporate career and the perks that come with it? How easy was the transition from being an In-House Lawyer to joining a startup like Vahura?

Since the shift was a conscious and well thought of decision, I was prepared for all the changes that would accompany it. I do remember, that have worked with a company having 5000 odd employees on campus, coming into a small office with just 2 other colleagues for company felt a little strange, initially. But the work was so interesting, there were so many new people to meet, so many different things to learn that I didn’t mind at all. The best part was not being tied to the desk. Meeting clients and professionals meant that I was constantly outside. That always helped break the monotony and made work exciting. Infact, it’s so easy to get lost in the crowd when you work for a bigger organization. Here, each small contribution that you make stands out and earns you recognition. Of course, you probably don’t get the same perks that would have come from working with a bigger organization. But then the flexibility, the opportunity to take on more responsibility, the ability to grow quickly and to expand on your learning are unmatched. They more than make up for anything else that you miss out on otherwise. I have always been very sure about what I do not want in terms of a career- long work hours, system bound work procedures etc, don’t interest me. That way, I feel that I have got more than what I could have asked for.

How has the decision to join Vahura impacted you as a person and your growth as an individual? 

I would say that the impact has been tremendous. I am much more confident as a person. My present role has helped me realise my own strength and the organization has seen potential in me when I myself have not. I can confidently say that I have learnt much more in these past 6 odd years than I have in any of my previous roles. I started off as a legal recruiter and was soon overseeing hiring for the entire Southern region (law firms and in-house included). When I was back from a maternity break and requested for a change of role, I was quickly absorbed into more strategic functions. I currently oversee Internal Functions and People Management, besides handling Performance Management and Internal Talent Acquisition for the organization. I also got one of the biggest opportunities in my life when I became one of the Directors on the Board, about a year and half ago. I can proudly say that I am the first Woman Director at Vahura! I don’t think I would have got this opportunity anywhere else and that too so early on in my career. If I look back at my career graph and see the entire gamut of work that I have handled, I see no regrets and I feel satisfied.

How has your legal education and training helped you in your present role?

My legal education and training has been a big advantage in all the roles that I have played at Vahura. We touch all aspects of Legal Talent – recruiting, consulting, governance, mentorship, community engagement. Although a legal education is not a pre-requisite for all this, it does make a huge difference. When I am recruiting a lawyer for the legal team of a company, it helps if I have been an in-house lawyer myself. It gives me an intuitive understanding, backed by practical experience which works very well for the client as well. So also, as a HR Manager for Vahura, my previous corporate experience has come handy in implementing best practices and recommending changes for the organizational well-being.

If you were to do one thing differently, with respect to your career, what would that be?

I would probably go back to law school and would take my internships and moots more seriously! Not that they have impacted my career progress and have affected what I am today. But they would have definitely helped me make a more informed choice and would have helped me figure out faster what WOULD NOT work for me. I interact with law students/ fresh graduates now and see how well prepared they are and how thoroughly they have researched about what they want. I can’t help but feel a pang of envy! I admire them for knowing what they want, so early on in life. It definitely gives you an edge and helps you stay focused.

What would be your advice to a young lawyer if he/she wants to tread the alternate career path? 

We are all in a noble profession. The opportunity to make a difference in society and in the lives of others is so much more for us as lawyers. Whether you are a litigating lawyer who is fighting for the right cause or a corporate/ law firm lawyer impacting businesses decisions, there is no limit to what you can achieve in this field. If that is not your cup of tea, then you can always be an ‘alternate lawyer’ like me and help make an impact by being on the other side of things. The ways in which you can do that are unlimited. For instance, I am presently heading a project at Vahura called ReLawnch. It is aimed at helping women lawyers make a comeback into the profession after they have taken a career break. We have had our first success by helping a woman professional start her career in litigation. The entire experience is so fulfilling and enriching that it is unparalled. To know that what you do makes you happy and that you are doing your bit to make the world that much better- that is when you know that you are doing the right thing! And if that means doing something unconventional and taking the road less travelled, so be it. If it doesn’t work, you always have the option to get back to the core legal profession. But it is important to try before you arrive at that decision.

Raj Panchmatia graduated from Mumbai University in 2000. He is a partner in the Dispute Resolution Practice group in the Mumbai Office and has a rich experience in the field of dispute resolution and commercial litigation, both at domestic and international fora. He has advised clients on a wide variety of claims under Indian Arbitration Laws, SIAC, LCIA, ICC, UNCITRAL and HKIAC and has extensive experience in dealing with disputes under all forms of contracts and agreements. Raj also advises clients on litigation before the Supreme Court of India, various High Courts of the country, the Securities Appellate Tribunal and the Company Law Board.

Raj has worked on a number of corporate and commercial litigation matters for various private equity investors, multinational and industrial houses of the country, including prominent infrastructure, real estate, automobile, defence, hospitality, public sector undertakings and ship building companies. Raj has also represented the Government of India on various dispute resolution matters.

In this interview he talks to us about:

• His work at Khaitan and Co.
• Necessity of a mentor or guide.
• Difficulties faced in the early days of practice.
• How he keep himself abreast with latest industry news and trends.

You graduated from Mumbai University in 2000. What was the legal profession like back then? What were your objectives as a law student?

Legal profession back then was still technologically evolving. Those were interesting times,as law could be found only in books and not on Google. My senior told me – work hard and rest will follow.

How is your work at Khaitan and Co.? Please tell us a bit about your work profile. What are the responsibilities you are entrusted with?

I am a partner at Khaitan. My core area of practice is litigation and disputes resolution. At Khaitan, I have been fortunate to be part of some of the biggest litigations and arbitrations of recent times, in terms of value and significance. My clients vary from international companies, PSUs and Indian promoters in all sectors. Joint venture disputes seem to be in vogue these days, and I advise on many of them as well. As a partner in a law firm, soft skills play an equally important role as legal skills. As a Partner your responsibility would also include building and managing a team which is effective and a practice which is robust.

How necessary is it to have a mentor or guide to handhold a young lawyer while still in the formative years of the profession? Did you have one?

It is good to have a mentor and a guide in your formative years who is willing to guide you through the nuances of the practice, especially if one comes from a non-legal background. In my formative years I had an opportunity to train under some of the finest legal minds Late Mr. D M Popat, Senior Partner of Mulla & Mulla & Crige Blunt and Caroe and Mr. D D Udeshi, Partner of Udwadia & Udeshi as it then was. I also had an opportunity to work under Mr. D E Udwadia, who exposed me to corporate laws, which has been very helpful in dealing with corporate disputes of today.

What were the difficulties you faced in the early days of your practice? How many years of hard work does it require to build a firm clientele?

Let me put it this way, if you are willing to learn and work hard, things become easier. There used to be paltry sum of stipend (compared to what interns make these days) and hours were long. I never said no for any kind of work that came my way. As I don’t come from a family of lawyers, learning on the job was the most effective way. It was tough but satisfying. Unlike in the present times technology was not so easily available and research would take far more time. I had to learn the ways to complete the research efficiently and without missing any important points. This exposed me to a variety of laws, and I gained rich and vast experience. The crucial thing, which I feel I learnt from the experience, was to apply innovative and lateral thinking, despite time pressure.

You build relationships not clientele. You need to build trust and provide consistent quality advice. There are no fixed timelines for this.

Could you tell us about the atmosphere in each of the places you have worked and what one should keep in mind before joining?

I have been part of a large as well as a mid-size organization. Each organization has its own systems, which essentially shows the values and beliefs of its founders/partners. Fortunately, every place I worked at had an atmosphere of trust and it felt like a big family, which helped me grow professionally as well as individually.

I would say that before joining a firm, one should first understand the ethos of the firm as a whole. One should choose an organisation that is known for its integrity, value systems and has a work culture that allows its resources to flourish and bring excellence at their work.

From an Articled Clerk to Advocate and Solicitor assistant at Mulla and Mulla and Craigie Blunt & Caroe, how did it happen? What are the important attributes for an Articled Clerk to work on?

I joined Mulla & Mulla after I qualified as an Advocate and then went on to qualify as a Solicitor. In hindsight, it was perhaps one of the best career decisions I made as I found the learning curve to be extremely satisfying. My initial training in Mullas gave me a firm foundation. There was a lot of hard work, research and reading. Practice then was not slotted in compartments which meant,I got experience in various spheres of law.

Once a candidate decides to become an articled clerk, and has chosen a master to learn from, it is then most important to put his full faith and trust in his master.  So decide well under whom and where you want to article, as this is the place which will make a lawyer out of you.

How do you keep yourself abreast with latest industry news and trends?

At Khaitan we have a very good initiative which is CLE (Continuous Learning Exercise) which helps all its advocates keep themselves updated. A CLE is a monthly session where all teams present updates from their respective practice areas, followed by a brief discussion. These sessions are very helpful as you get to interact with lawyers experienced in that field. I also read judgments, legal journals and magazines as time permits. Discussing and sharing issues with my colleagues is also helpful and often bring out new nuances and directions.

You have authored articles in various Indian and International legal journals. Please share with our readers your experience.

Writing is not something which came to me naturally. Having said that, once you make an effort and if the result is even partially satisfying, it is a huge gratification. I intend to explore this more. Of course my team has been extremely supportive in my efforts and credit must go to them as well.

What would be your parting message to law students?

I can only pass on which I inherited and strongly believe in – Be true to yourself and true to your work and the rest will follow. Never shy from working hard.

Ramakant Gaur graduated from Chaudhary Charan Singh College, Meerut in 1995. He is a game changer, defense lawyer for the complex litigations of Economic-Corporate-real estate disputes involving the criminal laws. He examines the matters closely like an investigator; ponders the prosecution’s point of view and then envisions the strategy for the defence, with his substantial experience.

He has excelled in prosecution cases instituted by the Indian Dept. of Customs & Central Excise, Directorate of Revenue Intelligence (DRI), Directorate General of Central Excise Intelligence (DGCEI), Central Economic Intelligence Bureau, Enforcement Directorate, Economic Offense Wing and Crime Branch of Multi State Jurisdictions, Income Tax dept. etc. He has efficaciously pleaded as defence attorney, in the cases involving prevention of money laundering laws, Corruption laws & anti-drugs laws.

In this interview he talks to us about:

• The ways in which money laundering takes place.
• Laws before and after Prevention of Money Laundering Act, 2002.
• Lessons to be learn from various financial scams in India and abroad.
• Role of national and international agencies to curb issue of money laundering.
• Preventive measures taken to curb the flow of black money.

What are the ways in which money laundering takes place? 

Money laundering is a way to filter and convert ill-gotten money and conceal its illegitimate source so that it appears that the original source is a legitimate one. It is prevalent in many forms world-wide such as Hawala transactions, shell companies, terror financing, smurfing, etc. The scamsters or the money launderers generally follow these three steps, firstly, Placement of the proceeds of crime into the financial system, followed by Layering or doing away with the original source of illicit funds, and then Integrating the same into the financial system.

What are the laws before and after Prevention of Money Laundering Act, 2002? What major amendments took place?

Until 2002, several authorities under IT Act, Benami transactions Act, etc. adjudicated over the issue of money laundering, but with the alarming rate of transnational criminal financial activities, a need for holistic legislation gave way for the enactment of PMLA 2002. It has the provisions for the confiscation of tainted properties and was amended thrice, first in 2005, then in 2009 and then 2012. The PMLA (Amendment) Act, 2012 has enlarged the definition of money laundering by including activities such as concealment, acquisition, possession and use of proceeds of crime as criminal activities. Some other features are as follows: The amendment has introduced the concept of Corresponding law to link the provisions of Indian law with the laws of foreign countries and to provide for transfer of the proceeds of foreign predicate offence committed in any manner in India. It also adds the concept of ‘reporting entity’ which would include a banking company, financial institution, intermediary or a person carrying on a designated business or profession. The Prevention of Money Laundering Act, 2002 levied a fine up to Rs 5 lakh. The amendment act has removed this upper limit. The act has provided for provisional attachment and confiscation of property of any person (for a period not exceeding 180 days). This power may be exercised by the authority if it has reason to believe that the offence of money laundering has taken place. Part B of the Schedule in the erstwhile Act included only those crimes that are above Rs 30 lakh or more whereas Part A did not specify any monetary limit of the offence. The amended act has brought all the offences under Part A of the Schedule to ensure that the monetary thresholds do not apply to the offence of money laundering.

What are the objectives of Prevention of Money Laundering Act, 2002? 

The Act was introduced in order to combat and deal with the menace of Money Laundering and incidental activities in the nation in lines with India’s international obligation under the UN General Assembly’s resolution adopted in its Political Declaration and Global Program against Action. The Act majorly provides for the confiscation of the property obtained out of the proceeds of crime. It also imposes various obligations on banks, financial institutions and intermediaries to maintain records of all cash transactions. As the basic principles of evidence say that the burden to proof is on the part of the prosecution to prove the, this is the only statute where the onus lies on respondent to prove the legit source of income.

Please share with us the success story of PMLA so far in the light of judicial pronouncements. Highlight some scandals and case studies.

The PMLA has played undoubtedly played a deterrent role when it comes to combat/curb the menace of money laundering. The Enforcement Directorate, with the vigilant efforts made by FIU, CBDT, CBI, RBI and SEBI has confiscated crores of movable and immovable properties in the span of few years which were allegedly obtained from the proceeds of crime. It has spared absolutely nobody. From two tier-city businessmen to  top-notch names have find a mention in the hit-list of ED such as Vijay Mallya, Chagan Bhujbal, Subhrata Roy to name a few. As per the statute, ED has also attached properties situated abroad. The latest highlights being Augusta Westland case, Kingfisher fiasco, NSEL case, Kartik Chidambram and many more. ED has been absolutely ruthless in cracking down these alleged people.

What are the lessons to be learnt from various financial scams in India and abroad? 

To name any financial debacle in particular, would be an understatement. India has seen the infamous Hawala transactions, Satyam scam, chit fund scams, Ketan Parikh and Harshad Mehta, to name a few. They admonish towards the fact that banks and financial institutions have to be brought under the radar of regulatory and enforcement agencies. The cash transactions also have to be dragged under certain threshold limits.

The success of RICO Act of USA, originally used to prosecute US Mafias US involved in organised crimes during 1980s, led to number of trials and convictions. It has a strong harmonious network with various enforcement agencies. On similar lines, creation of SIT on black money as a watchdog has taken a leap in investigation of black money in and out of India. As per the latest report of SIT, the data provided by the enforcement authorities shows that there are gaps in monitoring trade flows which are used by unscrupulous elements to take out precious capitals outside the country and thus damaging the fabric of the Indian economy and in order to deal with the same, the SIT has asked RBI to establish an institutional mechanism to track illicit financial flows and share data with other law enforcement agencies such as ED,DRI and CBDT and from the said data base various agencies can gather the relevant information for taking early appropriate action. This is so since the data available with one agency can be relevant to action expected to be taken by other law enforcement agency.

What is the role of national and international agencies to curb issue of money laundering?

Various special courts have been set up by the virtue of this Act for the purpose of trial of scheduled offences. The Enforcement Directorate has been responsible for the investigation and Prosecution of cases under PML. The Financial Intelligence Unit India (FIU-IND) is the nodal agency for the dissemination and analysis if the information pertaining to the suspicious financial activities. Apart from these, RBI, SEBI, CBDT, Police have been active at different levels to look into flow of Black money.

At the international level, with the initiatives of UN Financial Action Task Force (FATF) was formed in 1989 to set standards and formulate policies to combat money laundering. It is today one of the most efficient organization working towards this directions, especially on Combating the Financing of Terrorism (CFT).  UN and many .other nations have enacted stricter laws on money laundering as well.

What preventive measures are taken to curb the flow of black money? 

Government enacting Black Money Act 2015 has been seen showing light at the end of the tunnel from where undisclosed foreign income enters into Indian system as it has stricter penalties for offences since it was the need of the hour. Also India has signed many Double Tax Avoidance Agreements, SIT has been setup to investigate this issue, and Income Declaration Scheme 2016 have been introduced, strict KYC norms to be followed by banks, Tax Information Exchange (TIE) Agreements are proposed and many other precautionary measures have been taken.

SIT has been proposing several recommendations in this regard such as a ban on cash transactions above Rs. 3 lakhs and restricting cash holdings with individuals upto Rs. 15 Lakhs; then it has suggested to establish KYC registry; prior detection of the shell companies with the help of intelligence gathering and entrusting Serious Fraud Investigation Office (SFIO) to regularly mine the MCA 21 database for certain red flag indicators; to check upon the misuse of Participatory notes through KYC norms so as to detect the beneficial owner with the help of PAN card number. It has also suggested that all the cases pertaining to trade-based money laundering should be shared with ED by DRI so as to initiate investigation under PMLA. Therefore, our law-makers have set up the panacea to the problem of black money but its effective enforcement will be testified over the time.

What are the loopholes in the current legal regime in India? 

So far as prevention of money laundering is concerned it has been fairly able to do justice, but still it has certain grey areas. Real estate sector, jewellery and bullion, and NGOs are the most vulnerable sectors for occurrence of illicit financial transactions. Inadequate scrutiny structure for cash transactions, inefficient system to preserve confidential financial system and liberal attitude towards the non taxpayers are a few areas where our legal system is lagging behind.

As, a defence lawyer of prevention of money laundering cases, it has been observed that the process of attaching properties of the accused by ED has ,mostly been done even before filing of any criminal complaint or a chargesheet been filed and thus infructuous. There is a lot that has to be done by all the vigilance authorities other than targeting big names and getting affected by media trials. The present situation demands major amendments in the grounds/process of attaching the properties under PMLA as till date this process has turned out to be absurd.

What were the challenges you faced in shaping up your career as it stands today?

There is no competition or challenge in the space whereas there are challenges, struggle and obstacles on the road. I preferred to create a space and develop a niche, reign of the economic loss. I had beaten the competition or challenge through strategy executed with the support of a flamboyant team.

What would be your parting message to our readers?

There is no shortcut to the success except hard-work. Before entering into the professional reign, study the market. No client looks for the ordinary lawyer. Start your career as a champion and excel.

Smita Reddy graduated from Gujarat National Law University in 2011. At present she is working at LexStart. LexStart is a start-up which primarily caters to other start-ups assisting right from their incorporation to being their in-house counsel.

In this interview she talks to us about:

• Importance of CGPA.
• How her appointment at LexStart took place.
• Difference in working at LexStart from Amarchand & Mangaldas.
• Strategy to deal with errors and mistakes.

How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

My name is Smita Reddy. I graduated from Gujarat National Law University in 2011 and I am currently working at LexStart. LexStart is a start-up which primarily caters to other start-ups assisting right from their incorporation to being their in-house counsel!

How important is a CGPA for recruiters to assess students?

CGPA being extremely important for campus placements is a given. It helps recruiters understand that you are willing to give it your all, which is always a good thing. Since they don’t really have your work experience to grill you on, your CGPA is reflective of your attitude towards work.

Having said that, I know of some brilliant lawyers who weren’t great students to begin with. So yes, while having a good CGPA is crucial, it is also imperative that you intern before you start working. I cannot begin to stress enough on how important internships are in shaping you as a lawyer. I see so many law students wasting their internships and so many wasted opportunities. What law students need to understand is that these internships also help you in networking, plus if you’ve done a good job, you’re sure to be called back or given a pre-placement offer.

Did you face difficulties in the beginning of your work at Amarchand & Mangaldas?

Yes and no, because the difficulties I faced were more to do with not knowing how to go about things. I was a little lost, but since I joined with 15 other people from my law school, the process may have been a lot smoother for me than it was for other people. It was quite overwhelming in that sense, but once I got the hang of things, knew what was required of me, it became easier.

It also helps if you know and understand that no one expects you to know everything at this stage. This is exactly what I tell fresher’s. You only need to start worrying if you’re still lost at 3 years of working!

When did the transformation from a law student to a lawyer take place?

I think the transformation takes place from the moment you have to take charge of something. I remember the first major assignment (where I was solely responsible for things) I was given at AMSS was helping in filing Form FC TRS. Though it would have been simpler for my senior to do it, she assigned it to me because she thought it would help me understand how things work better. And it did!

The moment you are responsible for something, you somehow take greater care, than you would if you had a senior reviewing your work. I was blessed that way, because I was always part of teams which weren’t too big to begin with, so good assignments would end up coming to the juniors in the team.   

Do you believe that drafting legal documents is an essential skill that most law schools in India omit to teach their students?

Yes! While, to be fair, we did have a legal drafting course in GNLU, a couple of months of a course do not help you in drafting legal documents. What is surprising is that drafting constitutes around 60% of your work as a lawyer, irrespective of the field you are in. It is a skill set which I believe is extremely important to have as a lawyer. Plus, if you have a course on drafting in law school, you are not just suddenly thrown into drafting a share purchase agreement, without knowing the basics.

I have had interns who didn’t know how to do basic drafting, which is quite alarming,  which is why I think the current curriculum needs to undergo changes, maybe limit learning the theoretical aspect of law to the first couple of years, and focus more on developing you practically as a lawyer.

How did your appointment at “LexStart” take place?

It actually happened very quickly and at the right time, I must add. I live in Tirupati, I love the place but it isn’t exactly bustling with corporate lawyers. I had reached a point of my sabbatical where it was no longer fun to be doing nothing; I was getting antsy and had to start doing something.

My first round of interview was with Anisha Patnaik, one of my co-founders. It happened thanks to this friend of mine who had reached out to me informing me that his senior wanted a legal consultant, and that it would even be okay if I wanted to work from home. That literally sealed the deal for me, because I wasn’t keen on moving out of Tirupati. Imagine you can reach from Point A to Point B in ten minutes!

Anyway, I am digressing, once I heard that I could work from home, I immediately asked him to send me all the necessary details. The next day Anisha reached out to me and I just wasn’t prepared even though I had gone over my CV a million times before that. After my interview with Anisha, I spoke to my other co-founder, Karthik Chandrasekar. Post this I started working in a days’ time!

How was the job interview? Do you remember any of the questions asked to you?

It went rather well, given that I had absolutely lost touch with law in that one year of sabbatical! Also, my founders who took my interview made me feel at ease, being fully aware that I hadn’t worked in a while and may need some time to get back to the grind. They also encouraged me to ask them questions, which I thought was a pleasant change from the usual interviews that one is used to.

I was asked questions around VC investments primarily; I was able to answer most questions, except for one. I remember it distinctly because the moment I answered the question, I knew I was wrong, the question was on liquidation preference and what does it mean for an investor.

How is working at LexStart any different from working at Amarchand &  Mangaldas?

I will always maintain I loved working at AMSS, Mumbai and Delhi and will always attribute my growth as a corporate lawyer to it.

LexStart has been a different experience from AMSS, since you act as legal counsels to companies that are growing with you. What starts with helping in the incorporation of a new company also leads to acting as their lawyers in their Series D round of funding. What this has also done is given me a fair sense of what founders in start-ups expect their lawyers to do. Since I was one of the first few people to be recruited at LexStart, I had my hands full with transactions which I was to lead, which was wonderful, since this immediately gives you a sense of work ownership. Plus, there is so much happening in the start-up space, that there is never a dull moment at work!

What has been your strategy to deal with errors and mistakes? How would you suggest a young associate to deal with them?

In the past, whenever I have made a mistake, I have made it a point to inform my senior. What this ends up doing if helping you learn how to handle mistakes.

My only advise to young associates would be to always reach out to your immediate supervisor or a senior on the particular transaction and let them know. DO NOT try and hide it and hope no one would notice, because someone will, or even fix it yourself. They will do the necessary damage control. Most importantly, learn from your mistakes, check things twice or even three times before sending them out.

Having said that, please remember you are human, and you are bound to make mistakes now and then. Move on, don’t be too hard on yourself, because that will just make things worse.

What is your message to young law students?

Relax and breathe!

There is a lot of worrying about targets and deadlines coming your way once you graduate law school, but please do take internships seriously. Try gaining experience across all fields, whether it is litigation, NGO or corporate internships. It is good to know what you want from your first year in law school, but overtime you evolve as a person, and may not enjoy the fat-cheque-paying-corporate job you once dreamed of getting. Know that these varied experiences help you understand what you would actually enjoy doing and make an informed decision when its time.

V V S N Raju graduated from Osmania Universtity (1990-1993). He is a Corporate Lawyer and has over 22 years of Experience as in-house counsel and external counsel for Corporates and Financial Institutions/Banks.
His specialties include Banking, Corporate, Documentation, Real Estate, Recovery, Litigation, Arbitration, Project Finance, Restructuring, Securitization, Mergers and Acquisitions, government liaison and Employment Laws.

In this interview he talks to us about:

• Inception and basic motive behind establishing Juris Prime Law Services (Law Firm).
• Challenges faced in the initial days of establishment.
• Services provided by the firm.
• Uniqueness of services provided by the law firm.

Please share with us the inception and basic motive behind establishing Juris Prime Law Services.

During 2005 (re-launched in 2015), there were not much law firms in Hyderabad to cater the Banking, real estate and Corporate needs of local clients. So I felt it was a good time to establish a law firm which would provide best legal solutions with a practical approach to cater the needs of the clients in and around Hyderabad.

What challenges did you face in the initial days of establishment and how did you overcome that?

Main challenge that we faced during the initial years was getting right kind of clients and recruiting right kind of human resources. In fact, these are the challenges which are faced by all the companies at all time.

I sort of tried a trial method and recruited fresher’s and trained them so that they can provide legal services according to the standard and quality promised by our firm to our clients.

What are the services provided by the firm and how it caters the need of clients in Hyderabad and elsewhere?

Juris Prime Law Services is a full service law firm. We provide legal services in following fields:

• Arbitration & Dispute Resolution
• Banking & Finance
• Company Incorporation
• Corporate & Commercial Law
• Employment & Labour Law
• Foreign Investment
• Intellectual Property Rights
• Mergers & Acquisition
• Litigation
• Private Equity & Venture Capital
• Project & Corporate Finance
• Real Estate
• Technology, Media & Telecom

Being a full service law firm, we are capable of providing solution to all kinds of legal complexities faced by the clients under one umbrella. We structurize client’s transaction and provide practical solutions in a legal way.

Please share with us the uniqueness of services provided by your law firm.

We give problem oriented solutions. We believe in specialized rather than generalized solution which makes us different from our competitors.

What milestones have you achieved till now?

Our growth rate has been good and satisfactory. Since our inceptions there is no time for looking back as day by day we are progressing. Over the years we have been associated and empanelled with lot of Banks and large Corporates.

Where do you see the firm in the long run?

There is no road map as such because I believe in working hard which is a key to success. In coming 2 years we are hoping to see our revenue increasing by manifolds with a significant increase in no. of client and we from a firm of 11 headcount hope to become a team of 20 by March 2017.

Ritesh Maity graduated from University of Calcutta (2002-2007). He is practicing as a labour law advocate in Kolkata jurisdiction. He is specialized in dealing with various labour matters/ industrial disputes before the Learned Labour Courts, Industrial Tribunals, Employees’ Compensation Courts, Employees’ Insurance Court, and Payment of Wages Court etc. He has also represented clients before various controlling authorities dealing with payment of gratuity, wages and conciliation procedures.

In this interview he talks to us about:

• His life at University of Calcutta.
• The co-curricular activities he participated in.
• Why he focused primarily on industrial disputes along with consumer forum matter.
• Advise for law students who start to prepare for their career while in Law College.

What would be a brief introduction of yourself? 

I am 33 years old, born and brought up in Kolkata. Apart from being a lawyer, a son and a husband, I love being a traveller, trekker, music lover and a hardcore movie watcher.

Was it a childhood dream to take up law? What motivated you to pick this field? 

I only thought of joining law school after my 10^th. A cousin heavily influenced me to join law and guided me but surprising he never pursued career in law in spite of studying law.

How was your life at University of Calcutta? Did you find that your law school education prepared you for your current life? 

Life at the university was as usual. The initial interest (in the first year) was huge but I was dying to complete the course in the final year (fifth year). It is too boring to study law for five years with the same classmates. Calcutta University does not provide you much in terms of practical experience. If you want to become a litigating lawyer, you have to start from zero once you join the court. Frankly speaking, the university from where you have studied law does not matter in practical sense unless you want to bag a lucrative corporate job.

What were the activities you were a part of at your college? 

I participated in few moot courts, practical training in the court (but this was useless as you cannot understand or learn by visiting court for just a week) and participated in few legal awareness camps around rural Bengal.

What made you get into the legal practice? 

After completion of law, I did not want to join any firm or company. I wanted freedom and thus started practicing (although under a very able senior counsel) and I could not stop myself from continuing it.

What made you focus primarily on industrial disputes along with consumer forum matter? 

I was always interested in Human Resource and Industrial relations and somehow I got the opportunity to practice in this field of labour law and industrial law and the things just clicked. With due respect practising at consumer forum is slightly easier I believe. Once a client of mine whom I was assisting in the industrial disputes matter asked me to help him in a consumer related matter. I agreed to help and since then it is a history.

What falls within your scope of responsibility? 

Since I am a litigating lawyer, I have to handle the client as well as handle the Learned Judge. Entire responsibility is on me; how to convince and satisfy a client; how to draft, appear, plead, argue before the Judge; A to Z is done by me but yes there are clerks to help too.

How competitive would you say the legal profession was when you entered it has it changed since then? 

Legal profession is vast. You cannot really compare a corporate lawyer with a litigating lawyer or someone who does only registration of sale deeds or to a solicitor. Whether you are practising independently or drawing huge salary from a corporate house or engaged with a reputed law firm, every situation has its pros and cons. You have to decide what you want out of your profession (as well as your life). Competition in the field of law is huge, but fortunately there is lack of efficient competitors.

How do you balance your professional life with your personal life given the heavily demanding working hours of the profession you have chosen? 

Since I do not have any fixed working schedule, I may remain free or less busy during weekdays but I can be overburdened during weekends when family members expect me. This is a very tricky situation and you have to handle very carefully and smartly. Since I work from home office, at least I am able to remain in the house with my family members in spite of being busy.

How would you advice a law student if one has to start on to preparing for a career while in college? 

First decide why you want to study law. If you want to join a corporate job or want to earn high end salary then you have to join top law schools in India. If you want to be a litigating lawyer then remember that you have to work really hard for initial 10-15 years in order to be somewhere at least.

Please share with us your journey so far. 

So far so good both my learning as well as earning is in the upward curve. And being a litigating lawyer, I can make plans for travel and treks easily as I approve leave to myself.

What would be your parting message to our readers?

Be in this profession (or any profession) only if you love it.

Dr. Atmaram Shelke is a professor at Symbiosis Law School, Pune, a constituent of Symbiosis International University. He is a Ph. D. He is one of the most knowledgeable professors in Symbiosis Law School, Pune. In this interview he talks about

• The experiences of being in teaching field and the subjects that he prefers to teach
• The skills that students need to imbibe to be a good researcher
• Teaching experience at Ostfalia University, Germany
• Experiences of working with Ram Jethmalani in his research project of “Handbook on IPC”
• Being a part of Nani A. Palkhivala’s book review project.

HOW WOULD YOU LIKE TO INTRODUCE YOURSELF TO OUR READERS?

I am Dr. Atmaram Shelke, working at Symbiosis law school Pune, constituent of Symbiosis International University as a professor. I am also a recipient of two gold medals for standing first in LL.M. at Symbiosis International University (India).

WAS TEACHING YOUR PASSION SINCE CHILDHOOD?

Teaching has always been my passion. My father was also a teacher. In the second year of my LL.B. course, I used to take tuition for my classmates, juniors and even for a few seniors. So, teaching was always a passion and plan. Therefore immediately after my LL.B., I completed LL.M. and joined Symbiosis Law School, Pune.

YOU COMPLETE TEN YEARS OF TEACHING (IN SYMBIOSIS) THIS YEAR, HOW HAS THE EXPERIENCE BEEN SO FAR? WHAT ACCORDING TO YOU IS UNIQUE ABOUT SYMBIOSIS AND ITS STUDENTS?

It has been a wonderful experience. The students in Symbiosis are well informed about the current affairs and the latest developments in the field of law. So, the challenge that we as professors face is it that we have to cite current cases and go beyond the books. Also, in Symbiosis, there is a lot of emphasis on research and creation of knowledge.

ANY SPECIAL OR MEMORABLE INCIDENTS IN YOUR TEACHING CAREER THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO SHARE WITH US?

Yes, there are many such incidents. Students thanking me for all the help I have given them through my teaching always gives a special unmatchable feeling. I think gratitude shown by students is the biggest award for any teacher.

ANY MAJOR CHALLENGES THAT YOU FACED IN YOUR ROLE AS A PROFFESSOR SO FAR?

As I mentioned earlier, students show a lot more interest when current cases are being discussed and are used as examples to explain the concepts. So, we have to constantly update ourselves. I think that is one challenge which every law teacher faces.

AT A PERSONAL LEVEL WHICH SUBJECT DO YOU PREFER TEACHING AND WHY?

I prefer Constitutional Law, Administrative Law, Intellectual Property (IP) law and Information Technology (IT) Law. I prefer Constitutional Law because it is the base for other laws. Constitutional law and Administration Law both are logically developed subjects. There is lot of scope for analysis and criticism in both the subjects. IP & IT are evolving subjects. There are many challenges with regards to IP & IT. I have keen interest in IP and IT law subjects; therefore I even choose them for my Ph.D. research.

WHAT SKILLS SHOULD ONE DEVELOP TO WRITE GOOD RESEARCH PAPERS AND ARTICLES?

Writing skills and analytical skills are the pre-requisites for a good researcher. A good researcher should also have the quality to read and grasp important points, understand and comment (upon) apart from the ability to infer from the available data or material.

YOU HAVE VISITED OSTFALIA UNIVERSITY IN BRUNSWICK, GERMANY AS A VISITING PROFESSOR UNDER THE DAAD “NEW PASSAGE TO INDIA” PROGRAMME IN 2014. KINDLY ELABORATE ON THE EXPERIENCE

Ostfalia is a wonderful university. I had delivered lectures on Indian Legal System and challenges posed by Cyberspace. I had commented on problems posed by cyberspace in general and lacunae in Indian and German Laws. The presentations and discussion with professors there were well appreciated.

AT THE OSTFALIA UNIVERSITY, DID YOU OBSERVE ANY DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THEIR CURICULLUM AND OURS?

I think there is more emphasis on research and less spoon feeding. Students are given material at home; maximum lectures are written and copy of that is given to the students. The curriculum is basically research oriented.

YOU WERE A PART OF NANI A PALKHIVALA BOOK REVIEW PROJECT, KINDLY ELABORATE ON THE WORK THAT YOU DID  THERE.

This project was given by Nani A. Palkhivala Trust to SLS, Pune. I was one of the members of this project and I am proud to say that I have received Nani A. Palkhival Trust Gold Medal for standing first in LL.M. We have revised and updated the book written by Nani A. Palkhivala and submitted it to the Nani A. Palkhivala Trust.

YOU WERE ALSO A PART OF SENIOR ADVOCATE RAM JETHMALANI’S RESEARCH PROJECT ON “HANDBOOK ON IPC.” WHAT HAVE YOU GOT TO SAY ABOUT IT?

This project was related to a book to be written by Adv. Ram Jethmalani on famous criminal cases. I was privileged to work with Adv. Ram Jethmalani sir. He is a true intellectual. I have learnt many things while working with him. We often used to meet and discuss with him about the project’s progress.

WHAT FINAL ADVICE WOULD YOU LIKE TO  GIVE TO ALL THE LAW STUDENTS WHO ARE READING THIS RIGHT NOW?

A law student always needs to be curious. It is the duty of law students (including the professors) to ensure that the rule of law is maintained. Primarily, it is duty of professor to research and guide judiciary, executive and legislative authorities and bring everybody on track as, whenever there is any wrong action, first reaction is from academics. We (Law professionals) have to work as a pressure group for justice in a democratic system; we shouldn’t just criticise the agents of justice system but also guide them. Law students should be the torch bearer and show the right path to society, legislatures, judiciary and government.

Prathamesh Joshi, Assistant Professor at Symbiosis Law School, Pune has been teaching law for two years now. He is a professor of Contract Law and Code of Civil Procedure Code. He is loved among his students for his unorthodox way of teaching. He is also an alumnus of Symbiosis Law School, Pune having pursued his LL.M in Business and Corporate Law from the same college. He has also successfully completed his CS in 2016. Apart from teaching, he is very enthusiastic about games and sports, especially football.

Hello Prathamesh, the Superlawyer Team wants to thank you for giving us the chance to interview you. How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

I am Prathamesh Joshi. I have been teaching law in Symbiosis Law School, Pune. I specialise in Business and Corporate Law and teaching law is my passion. I have also cleared my Company Secretary course successfully in 2016.

People throw a typical glance at those who study or practice law in today’s time as all lawyers are necessarily branded and stereotyped as self-serving in some way. Despite chances of facing such a situation, what are the factors that had motivated you to choose law over other profession?

Since I am from a commerce background, I understood the necessity for corporate compliances. Through this sector I can serve the nation by contributing to the economy through my theoretical and practical knowledge in the corporate sector.

How will you describe your law school experience?

I had a very decent law school experience. My LLB days were fairly good as I did well in almost everything. My LLM days were very good as I studied in one of the premier law schools and was able to take part in many activities such as football, drama and so on. Coming to academics, I performed very well and I was able to strike a wonderful balance in every aspect.

During the course of study, a student’s interest keeps on changing from time to time. I believe you have experienced the same as a student and see your own students experiencing the same. What is your take on it? How should one choose a particular field of law to pursue and make a career on it?

Yes, students’ interests keep changing and are part and parcel of the legal education as students come across various subjects which they wouldn’t have ever before. My favourite subjects were Criminal Law and Constitutional Law but, as I stated earlier, I chose Corporate Law as it facilitated by vision to serve and contribute to the nation.

Having done LLM, how relevant do you find the same when it comes to a reality check? Do you think LLM has helped you in a positive way in making you who you are today? Kindly elaborate.

LLM is very helpful as it dwells into the intricacies which are involved in a particular field of law. It has definitely helped me because the curriculum was designed in such a way that it gave me an opportunity to learn various aspects and gain maximum knowledge. The subject I studied was contemporary Business and Corporate Laws.

In the current situation, people often go out to the foreign countries for pursuing masters in law. What according to you prompts people to take the foreign route for pursuing LLM?

As far as going abroad is concerned, in my opinion, there is no large gulf between the education provided abroad and in India. Important specialisations such as Corporate, Criminal, Constitution, IPR and so on are provided in many universities across India with high quality. It is the experience which prompts majority of the students to go abroad.

You are possibly the only professor who has completed CS but is still a professor of law. What’s your take on CS?

Despite me completing my CS, I still identify as a law professor because of the belief within myself and my family as well as various third persons such as my students that I should continue to teach in law. CS as a profession opens a lot of doors and provides many opportunities such as teaching, working in private and public sector and so on. Most of all, the Course provides you with a lot of practical knowledge in addition to the theoretical knowledge.

Many people consider CS to be an excellent value addition to their CV. Many people believe that CS is the key to a good corporate job. What do you think on this point? What should be the objective (aim) of the student if he/ she want to pursue CS?

The reasoning of the people is legitimate. Earning money as a prime motive is legitimate and there is nothing wrong with it despite many criticisms of that notion. This should not be the only motive however. Finding ways to perform well and making efforts to strive for excellence shall ensure that success and money would follow. Interest in the subject and excellence should be the aim.

Having been into teaching for some time now, how will you describe your experience of the same? Did you come to teaching after thorough planning or did it come coincidentally?

The teaching profession was planned in advance because of my passion to serve.  My experience in teaching has been a very good one. I have received positive feedback on my rather orthodox way of teaching, which is linking up various themes and topics in order to make a strong point across to the students. Students’ being good listeners has also been a contributing factor.

Some people believe and opine that mooting, authoring research papers are a kind of skill development exercise and without these one will not have a good career (will not get a good job post graduation). What’s your take on this point?

Of course, mooting and authoring research papers are important part of a law student’s life as they will help in minimising mistakes, but his should not be at the cost of academics. You should be able to strike a balance between both aspects because along with theoretical knowledge, logic and reasoning (can be mastered through mooting) is also necessary.

What has been your happiest Day as a law student and law professor?

Worst Day as a law student and law professor – none in specific, but I have faced a bad day where I was not able to deliver a proper lecture and couldn’t do enough justice.

Despite being a professor in a law school, you still don’t miss even a single match of your favourite football team, Bayern Munich’s match. How do you maintain your work-life balance? What other hobbies do you have?

The key for this is panning out well before hand and striking a balance among all the necessities. Teaching and being among students themselves act as a stress buster. Other than football, I am a big lover of music and I play the mouth organ too.

Is there any parting piece of advice you would like to pass on to the readers, especially the students.

I only have a simple piece of advice. Be diligent in everything you do, strike a balance and plan in advance all the things which you want to do and enjoy college to the fullest. Strive towards excellence and success will follow.

Aloy Das Mahapatra is an alumnus of Symbiosis Law School Pune, a constituent of Symbiosis International University. Having graduated from law school in 2013, he has worked in Bose & Mitra & Co. and Scorpio Marine Management (I) Pvt. Ltd. in the field of marine law. During his law school days he got opportunities to intern abroad which he undertook successfully. Apart from that he has a fair experience of leadership skills too while he was heading the Disciplinary Committee in Symbiosis Law School Pune. He has completed four grades of the violin curriculum from the Associated Board of the Royal Schools of Music, London and takes pride in calling himself a music enthusiast. Starting under the tutelage of Mr. Amitava (Raja) Majumdar (a notable practitioner in India and abroad in maritime law) at the Band I law firm Bose & Mitra & Co., he can currently be described as an independent advisor in the maritime law based out of Mumbai, India.

In this interview he talks about –

• His college experience
• His take on internships and opinion on co-curricular and extra-curricular activities
• His interest in the maritime law
• His Indian and foreign internship experience
• His experience of working at Bose & Mitra & Co. and as an independent advisor

HELLO ALOY, WE FROM THE TEAM SUPERLAWYER WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU FOR PROVIDING US A CHANCE TO INTERVIEW YOU ON THE SUPERLAWYER PLATFORM. HOW WOULD LIKE TO INTRODUCE YOURSELF?

I’m a maritime lawyer with a keen interest in the business aspect of the legal practice. I’m presently trying to effectively shape a transition to the commercial side of global trade. As to my law school background, I graduated in the 2008-2013 batch of Symbiosis Law School, Pune and I pursued the B.B.A, LL.B dual degree programme. If you were to digress from law a bit, you’d find me exploring the latest hot joints in the city –when it comes to food, I am passionate about it to another level. On weekends, when I’m free, you’d probably find me playing badminton or swimming with my mates – I thoroughly enjoy playing a lot of sports.

TELL US SOMETHING ABOUT YOUR COLLEGE EXPERIENCE.

I don’t think mine would be any different from that of most students at Symbiosis. I learned as much outside of my class as I learnt while inside it. It was the first time that I had actually moved away from home and, looking back, I think it was a sum total of all my experiences there that played a significant role in moulding me into the person that I am today. I was fortunate to have a lot of friends, not just from law school, who became my family there. In law school, I was associated with the Disciplinary Committee and I had a chance to learn a lot of life skills while heading the team there. The team was fabulous and I forged close friendships with most of them. If I had a chance, I’d perhaps relive my life there, but I’m also conscious of the fact that each phase of live is meted out in the perfect dose; so yes, it’s time to move on.

YOU HAVE UNDERTAKEN INTERNSHIPS AT RENOWNED LAW FIRMS WHILE IN LAW SCHOOL. DO YOU THINK THAT INTERNING AT BIG FIRMS MATTER AND HELPS ONE IN THE CAREER?

I think a lot depends on not just one’s ability and interest in a field but also how well one fits into a particular setting, so the firm could be big or small or whatever but if it’s not the perfect fit then what’s the point? I tried several lines till I was able to identify a stream that I associated with most – shipping. Accordingly, most of my internships were in that stream. For me, it fit well. Thus, coming to your point, if you can make your mark and if what the organisation does aligns with your interest, then go ahead and jump right in. There’s no point beating around the bush. If you’re not sure, intern in as many different places as you can till you find your perfect fit. Just to be sure, however. it’s imperative to be guided by the age-old advice that, as a young lawyer, take whatever comes your way and do not develop a preconceived restriction for yourself.

THOUGH YOUR INTERNSHIPS HAVE BEEN BALANCED THROUGHOUT, THERE SEEMS TO HAVE BEEN A PERSISTENT TILT TOWARD MARINE LAW. WHEN DID YOU REALIZE THAT MARINE LAW IS THE AREA WHERE YOU CAN EXCEL?

My first internship with Bose & Mitra & Co. was when I really thought maritime law was a line I could do well in. Dealing in a subject that was not taught in college and yet getting to grips with it easily was what kind of set the deal straight for me. My father had worked in shipping for at least the entire length of my life till then, so there were shipping terms and concepts that I had heard for years and was aware of which perhaps gave me an edge in dealing with matters. Apart from this, the international nature of the line appealed to me. You get to work with people all over the world on a daily basis and play a significant role in global trade. The relevance of what I did really strike me as I realized the impact the shipping industry has on one’s daily life. All this ultimately culminated in an interest to pursue a career in shipping.

YOU HAVE INTERNED TWICE AT BOSE & MITRA & CO., THE FIRM THAT IS BEING CONSIDERED AS A TOP TIER LAW FIRM IN INDIA IN THE MARINE LAW SECTOR. HOW WILL YOU DESCRIBE THE EXPERIENCE OF THE SAME? HOW DID IT BENEFIT IN SHAPING YOUR CAREER?

Bose & Mitra & Co. does top quality work in maritime law and I always maintain that it’s the best learning experience that one can get in that field in India. Pretty much every major shipping company, not only in India, but also in the world, are its clients. Right from the first day, you are thrown straight into quality work. They expect you to pick up fast and know your matters inside out. I was also fortunate to have some of the best seniors mentor me. The Managing Partner too will himself hear you out if you have a relevant point to make and spurs you on to be more involved in matters if you show interest. You’re expected to contribute and are encouraged to discuss and pick up as much as you can in the duration of your internship. As I said earlier, for me, it was the perfect fit – so working there opened doors to a host of different opportunities that may not have come up if I were pursuing something else.

HAVING INTERNED OVERSEAS UNDER RENOWNED LAWYERS IN TWO VERY PROMINENT ORGANIZATIONS, HOW WILL YOU DESCRIBE THE EXPERIENCE OF THE SAME?

So, in shipping, you have to make your perspective international. There are no two ways about it. You could be acting for Singaporean clients who are shipping Arab crude from Houston to South Africa and they, in turn, might have a dispute with some party in the UK. An internship at Stephenson Harwood, London gave me a chance to work in an international setting and deal with shipping matters from all over the world. Stationed in London, I was at the hub of global maritime law. Most international shipping contracts are governed by English Law and to have gotten a first-hand experience in dealing with it, worked wonders in developing, further, the international perspective that I refer to. Similarly, I also had a chance to work with a barrister Mr. Brian Dye, who is associated with the Essex Court Chambers. With him, my focus was to get a first-hand experience in an international shipping arbitration. I had a chance to work on a cargo contamination dispute and attend the arbitration proceedings at the famous Baltic Exchange. Both these experiences gave me a chance to develop further a global mindset to approaching problems in shipping.

HOW BENEFICIAL DO YOU THINK FOREIGN INTERNSHIPS ARE? WHAT ARE THE BENEFITS YOU BELIEVE YOU HAVE REAPED FROM THE TWO INTERNSHIPS THAT YOU UNDERTOOK IN ABROAD?

This would really depend on what line one is pursuing. I cannot comment about other streams, but at least in maritime law an international experience (and I do not mean just an internship- one could be doing very relevant international shipping work sitting in Mumbai) would really expose one to a lot and help one understand better the relevance of shipping to everything. Apart from this, if one has a chance, why not? It’s always great to get a global exposure and get out of one’s shell, deal with people from multiple nationalities, get a completely different insight into another way of thinking. Both experiences gave me a fantastic awareness into the workings of foreign firms and chambers in the field of maritime law. As mentioned earlier, they were very useful in developing the international perspective that one has to have in this field.

PLEASE SHARE WITH THE READERS ABOUT HOW YOU SUCCESSFULLY LANDED THOSE HIGH-PROFILE INTERNSHIPS.

I just worked really hard during my internships. Raja Sir, the Managing Partner at Bose & Mitra & Co. and my mentor was privy to how I planned on making a career in shipping. He suggested that I get an exposure to the workings of a foreign law firm and the proceedings in an international arbitration. Through his enviable network, he was able to organise these stints for me. They were great experiences and I am grateful to him for them.

A SUBJECT LIKE MARINE LAW IS NOT A PART OF LAW SCHOOL CURRICULUM. IN THAT CASE, HOW DID YOU LEARN THE SAME LAW KINDLY ADVICE THE READERS ABOUT HOW TO GET INTO THIS PARTICULAR FIELD OF LAW.

Get involved with work. When I come to think of it, most of the law that I learnt was by applying the same to practical situations in internships. So, you really learn by doing. Agreed, not all schools have a maritime law curriculum, but I don’t think that makes a difference to the practical side of learning it. Also, as with any other stream of law, keep reading and updating yourself on developments in the field. It’ll be important to be in sync with not just Indian law but also with English law and sometimes Singapore Law. The only way to really get into this field would be to first try and secure an internship in the field and then see if one can fan that spark into a flame.

MARINE LAW IN INDIA IS QUITE OLD, WHICH MEANS THE LAW IS NOT THAT EFFECTIVE TO DEAL WITH NEWER CHALLENGES. WHAT IS YOUR OPINION ON THE SAME?

We are fortunate to have a learned judiciary that keeps the general best interest in mind. A lot of maritime law in India has also developed from precedents such as the MV Elisabeth case where the Supreme Court made international conventions applicable as common law. The decisions delivered by the courts have developed maritime law to global standards. In fact, it is my opinion, in shipping at least, that the judgments of Indian Courts are delivered as fast as, if not quicker than, foreign courts. Even now, there are steps being taken to make a comprehensive legislation that will take into account the situations of this day and age. Till then, the multiple inter connected legislations in maritime law will have to be referred to, by taking into account the specific facts and circumstances of the case.

PLEASE SHARE WITH READERS YOUR EXPERIENCE AT BOSE & MITRA & CO. AND SCORPIO MARINE MANAGEMENT (I) PVT. LTD.?

Both experiences were unique in their own way. As a Junior Associate at Bose & Mitra & Co. I had a chance to do a lot of shipping litigation work – both in courts and multiple arbitrations. I cannot stress enough the importance of working well in teams – especially in marine law. Litigation is unpredictable, but litigation in maritime law is even more so – an American client can give you instructions late night to move court in respect of a ship that will enter port early in the morning. Time is of essence and to be able to share the work effectively and coordinate with multiple parties will really lead to success. Bose & Mitra & Co exposed me to all this. Apart from this, we also worked on a lot of advisory work as well.

Scorpio Marine Management (I) Pvt. Ltd. is essentially the Indian arm of the global Scorpio Group – a behemoth in the shipping industry. I worked there as a Shipping Claims Analyst in the Legal Shipping Claims team based in Mumbai. I was extremely fortunate to have excellent seniors and mentors there as well. The Scorpio experience allowed me to gain experience in dispute prevention rather than just dispute resolution. It threw me into a very enriching international experience. A regular day involved dealing and interacting with lawyers and people the world over and advising the company in various situations. It also was partly responsible for setting the tone to my aspiration of moving into the business side of things. It pushed me to get a commercial perspective while dealing with matters.

All in all, when I look back, I can safely say that both were excellent experiences, helping me lay the foundations for my career.

HOW DOES IT FEEL TO BE AN INDEPENDENT PRACTITIONER/ ADVISOR IN THE FIELD OF MARINE LAW?

Trying out a short stint on my own before business school and getting a better understanding of the business side of shipping was important to me. I really wanted to get a first-hand experience in building something from scratch. It’s given me a chance to do a lot more than just legal work. In a way, it is shaping my business development skills, organisational understanding skills and generally understanding the commercial reasoning behind decisions. I am fortunate to have a few very senior people in the shipping industry who are mentoring me and giving me this exposure before I embark on a business education. Of course, I am no longer involved in high profile collision, piracy, oil-spill matters, but I am getting a chance to be my own boss and work on smaller advisory matters. And at the same time, I am getting an exposure into the management side of things in the shipping industry.

NOW THAT YOU HAVE DECIDED TO UNDERTAKE MBA, WHAT INSPIRED YOU FOR THE SAME?

As I mentioned before, my interests and ambitions were gradually getting inclined towards management of businesses. I remember when I was in school, I really wanted to do something of my own. By deciding to do an MBA, in my own way, I am trying to give shape to this dream. My experience at Scorpio too was crucial in understanding that there is a lot more to business than only what lawyers dealt with. I wanted to get involved in all of it and to be able to do that, getting a formal business education was vital, at least for me. What the future holds only time will tell. Someone said it best when he said that if you have a plan for your life, what is guaranteed is that it won’t go as per that. So, I can really comment on the rest as and when things shape up.

APART FROM THE SUCCESSFUL CAREER THAT YOU HAVE, YOU ARE A MUSIC ENTHUSIAST AND A SPORTSMAN. HOW DO YOU THINK THE EXTRA-CURRICULAR ACTIVITIES HAVE HELPED YOU IN MAKING WHAT YOU ARE TODAY WITH REFERENCE TO THE EXTRAORDINARY ACHIEVEMENTS YOU HAVE IN MUSIC AND SPORTS?

Music enthusiast – true; sportsman – not so sure. I’m not as much of a sportsman as I am a person that likes playing a lot of sports. I’m not sure that would qualify as a “sportsman” so to speak. I think working well in teams is vital in life. I don’t have years of experience, but if there is one thing I’ve learnt in the course of my work it’s that you’ll get a lot more done better with a team than without one; and playing team sports only helps in developing a general ability to deal with various types of people. Maybe not consciously, but unconsciously just playing with ten other teammates trains the brain to think in cohesion with a common purpose. Unfortunately, my professional football stint came to an end after a major injury in the beginning of my fourth year. My inclination towards music has, fortunately, not met with the same fate. I’ve completed four grades of the violin curriculum from the Associated Board of the Royal Schools of Music, London. Presently, I play the guitar and am dabbling with the djembe. I think playing a stringed instrument really helps in developing an analytical mind. Trying to get the right note on the neck of your violin or the fretboard of your guitar sort of trains the brain to think a certain way, I guess.

HOW IMPORTANT ROLE PUBLICATIONS AND COMMUNITY SERVICE PLAY ACCORDING TO YOU IN SHAPING ONE’S CAREER?

I’ve never been an extraordinary over achiever, so for a question like this I’d just say be involved in anything that echoes well with who you are and the zone you come from. If you’re going to do community work with an intention to “build a profile”, then that’s pointless. If you feel strongly about something, get associated with a cause. I work with an organisation that deals with gender equality and women’s health, but I’m realistic about what I can and cannot do with them. I help them in ways in which I think I can be useful. I don’t do as much field work with them but I do the research and paperwork for them. Personally, I feel, this won’t perhaps scream out as a super achievement in community work. Nevertheless, I do it because I think it’s a way in which I can be more effective in dealing with a cause for which I feel strongly about. As to publications, again, they scream laurels on your CV, but if you can’t have a free flowing talk about it, then it seems you’ve done it just to see your name in print. If you’re really passionate about a subject, then research all you can on it and write as much as you can. It’ll only help.

THERE IS AN INCREASINGLY TRENDING BELIEF AMONG THE YOUNG LAW GRADUATES OF TODAY THAT IN SPITE OF WHATEVER THEY MAY HAVE ACHIEVED IN THE ENTIRE DURATION OF THEIR RESPECTIVE LAW SCHOOL TENURES THEIR PROFESSIONAL WORTH IS ULTIMATELY DEEMED REDUNDANT IF THEY HAVE NOT IN THEIR POSSESSION AN LLM FROM AN IVY LEAGUE INSTITUTE. WHAT IS YOUR VIEW ON THAT?

Maybe I’m not in sync with the current thought processes of students but this is a first. Education is always great. A wise man I look up to once told me education always pays you back with interest and it’s not just monetary. To beat yourself up, however, because you don’t have an Ivy League specialisation is a little extreme for me. Additionally, what really matters is the quality of the education that you want in the stream that you’re interested in. So, if its maritime law, you’ll usually hear of people going for their masters to University of Southampton in the UK or Tulane University in the US. Neither of the schools is an Ivy League institute. So, what it burns down to really is what one wants and whether a school can provide what that individual expects from an institute.

WHAT FINAL PIECE OF ADVICE WOULD YOU LIKE TO PASS ON TO THE READERS?

I’m hardly in a position to dish out advice, really; but for your law school student readers, I’ll just suggest this – follow your gut. Make the most of college and soak in all that your institute has to offer. Sound everyone out – seniors, mentors, guides, etc. Still, ultimately do what you have to. Once you do that, have the conviction to follow through, and when you trip, get up, brush it off and move forward. You only have yourself to blame if you don’t make it.

Dr. J.S.Patil qualified in law from Karnataka University, Dharwad in 1977, and thereafter went on to pursue further studies from University of Mysore, and earned his Masters in 1979. In 1997 he also finished his Ph.D studies from Saurashtra University, Rajkot.

Dr. Patil served as a professor in the department of post graduate studies and research in law at Gulbarga University from 1995 and had deputations to other colleges including his stint from 2009 to 2013 as the Vice Chancellor of Karnataka State Law University. He is currently the Vice Chancellor of National Law University and Judicial Academy, Guwahati.

In this interview, he talks to us about:

• His love for the law and positive changes he has witnessed in the evolution of law
• The challenges he faces as the Vice Chancellor of NLU Assam and those that he faced in KSLU
• Advice on various facets of the legal profession and on acing law school
• The divisions he believes exist between NLUs and other law colleges
• His vision for legal education and NLU Assam

Tell us a bit about your childhood. Looking back, what are the most important lessons that you learnt as a young student that shaped your personality.

My school days were very important days of my life. There was a small government primary school in my locality known as Konapupet in a small town called Manvi in the Raichur District of Karnataka, where I had an excellent head master always dressed in a sherwani and fur cap, known for strictness and discipline. His personality influenced me to a great extent especially in meticulous dressing. When I was in the 4^th Standard in middle school, I was chosen to deliver a short speech on Independence Day on 15^th August 1964. My oration started from then onwards. In high school, I had some excellent teachers who were responsible for shaping my personality and future. All the schools I studied at were government schools, but satisfactorily qualitative with committed teachers. I was one among five students out of 150 who passed SSLC or 10^th Standard in 1970. It was so difficult to clear the matriculation during those days, passing matriculation was taken as a prestigious one. My parents were very pious and humble and their dream was to provide maximum education to their five children. They were from the lower middle class strata of society; they were unlettered and farmers, yet because of their commitment, four of their children could get a good education. This has taught me a great lesson – to work hard and worship work. They were my greatest teachers and my inspiration in my childhood. Along with my elder brother, I established a small library of Kannada literature at home, especially novels from Kannada litterateurs. I was fond of reading novels and lent the books to others by charging ten paise per day and buying books with the revenue. We were able to build a culture of reading among our friends in the mohalla by this initiative.

Why did you decide to opt for the profession of law? As a young student, which aspects of the law fascinated you the most?

When I joined the law course, I had no clarity in my mind as to career. Coming from a rural background, it was difficult for me to take decisions as we (my brothers and I) were the first generation educated people in our family. I joined law only because my other friends had also joined colleges for law. But later on, during the course of my study, I realised the importance of legal education. As a young student, I was deeply influenced by my principal and wanted to be a teacher like him and also an administrator like him. Teaching became my passion over a period of time.

Sir, you have pursued your law at Karnataka University. What were the highlights of your journey as a law student? Which legal subjects did you enjoy studying the most?

To study under great teachers like Professor G. V. Ajjappa, Principal, University College of Law, Dharwad and other very eminent teachers in the college was a memorable and privileged aspect of my life. As I was deeply influenced by the imposing personality of the Principal, his favourite subject, Jurisprudence, was an obvious choice as a subject I loved the most and continues to be so even today. I was an average student at the LL. B. level. When I moved to the Department of Studies and Research in Law at the Manasagangotri Campus, University of Mysore, I took to studies seriously and was often described by my teachers and library staff as a model student on campus. My serious commitment to legal academics during those days transformed me into a law teacher.

Did you ever have doubts back then about your ability to stand out in the legal profession? What, in your view, are the qualities that a law student should strive to possess in order to raise a notch above the rest?

When I came to Dharwad from my native place to prosecute higher education in 1970 for PUC, I had an inferiority complex. I was able to get over it during my LL.B. studies. I could not enrol as a lawyer due to economic problems. I got an LL.M. seat in the University of Mysore and joined. The problem of inferiority set in again as there were very good students with backgrounds of having ranks and other laurels to their credit, while I had none. Slowly I was able to get over it and developed confidence. I had very good classmates who encouraged me and helped me in my studies. We were like one family and had an excellent atmosphere in the Department. Because of my dedicated hard work and support from friends and the faculty, I could come out with flying colours, by getting the first position with a first class in the international law branch and getting the second rank in the entire department. That was the beginning of my academic career and I never looked back after that.

The legal profession demands hard work, regularity, punctuality, research, updating, good language and drafting skills, good communication and other soft skills, adaptation of modern IT tools and of course social and professional networking. Every law student should try to inculcate these qualities that will go a long way in building an excellent legal career.

How should law students go about selecting topics for research publications?

UGC regulations require a law teacher to take 18 hours workload of teaching. This takes away much of their time for teaching. Research takes a back seat as a consequence of this. Quality research has become a scarce commodity in the legal domain due to many reasons. The major reason, in my opinion, is the difficulty we are encountering in decolonising our consciousness. This problem is seriously interfering in understanding legal problems that we face in our country. Teachers need good training in customised research skills in the domain of law rather than routine research methods. Research and legal writings will become meaningful only if these are of relevance in providing justice to the common man. Competition to publish, due to the UGC requirement of API score, has encouraged law teachers to write and publish in research journals. It has also given rise to commercialisation and mushrooming of research journals raising question marks on the quality of research articles published in some of these journals. More attention to attend seminars and conferences, present papers, write research papers and publish have added to the overall personality of law teachers. It is also providing them with that additional input necessary to bring dynamics in their teaching.

Students must select research topics based upon the hard realities of the need of the time, the problems our people face and difficulties they encounter in their lives vis-à-vis legality. Problems taken up for research need not be big and impressive but they must be pragmatic and practical. Solvability of the problem should be the hall mark of research topics.

What are the biggest challenges that you have had to grapple with as the vice chancellor of NLU, Assam as well as KSLU? What have been the biggest successes so far?

I have just started my innings in NLUJAA, Guwahati. The faculty and students here are wonderful. An urgent issue that I have had to deal with is shifting the University to the new campus. This will take a couple of months. The administrative building and law school building are ready for occupation. The construction of the Boys’ and Girls’ hostels is nearing completion. Construction of the Library, Judicial Academy and other buildings is also being taken up.

We need to customise some of the course content to reflect regional aspects of the North East. We have to use A-VIEW (Amrita Virtual Interactive E-learning World) in our class rooms for more effective teaching and to ensure transparency. We have to launch some regionally relevant research projects on local cultural laws, the Brahmaputra River water management system, Legal regulation of mega biodiversity, legal regulation of petroleum and other energy resources. An ambitious project that I have in mind is the reconstruction of Indian Jurisprudence based on Indian experiences since the inception of the Indian civilisation. Consultation with stalwarts in the field like Professor Upendra Baxi and Professor G.V.Ajjappa has already been initiated to build the project.

At KSLU the greatest challenges that I faced as the founder vice chancellor, were to acquire land, prepare the master plan and construct buildings. The other challenges were to bring 95 law colleges affiliated to various universities in Karnataka under one umbrella of KSLU and build a uniform curricula, examination system, etc. I have been able to do all these things successfully. Innovative steps taken at KSLU include the introduction of Khadi uniform on every Monday and singing of the national anthem every day in the morning before commencement of the classes and administrative activities of the University. This is to realise the dream of transforming KSLU into the peoples’ university with the punch line ‘Indian roots and global heights’.

Do you feel that the legal profession has significantly changed from when you decided to study law? What are some of the changes that have positively impacted the profession and legal academia in your opinion?

There have been some important changes in the legal profession since I started studying law. When I joined law, the legal profession was limited to civil and criminal practice. As time passed, there has been a tremendous expansion in legal professional activities in a variety of new and emerging areas like corporate and business laws, intellectual property rights, information technology law, entertainment and sports law, press and media law, environmental law, bio-diversity law, wild life and forest law, family law, consumer protection law, human rights, women and child rights, vigilance practice, legal process outsourcing, etc. The Legal profession has become one of the most sought after professions today. Every establishment needs to have a legal cell and recruit legal professionals. The union and state government departments, banks, corporates, NGOs, associations and unions, cooperatives, entertainment houses, press and media, etc. are establishing their own legal departments to address legal issues. The practice of law has gradually shifted from advocate chambers recruiting juniors to LLPs and LLCs and young lawyers joining these firms as employees or partners rather than juniors.

There is a massive change in legal academics as well. We witnessed the introduction of a five year LL.B. programme, which runs parallel with the three year LL.B. programme. The introduction of semester (trimester in some national law schools) and choice based credit and grades points system have brought significant qualitative change in legal education. Introduction of new teaching-learning IT tools and e-library have added new impetus to legal education. NAAC accreditation is an important step that forces law colleges and universities to document their activities systematically and to conform to the requisites reflected in seven domains of NAAC proforma. This process is helping in activating activities in legal educational institutions.

There are many types of legal educational institutions in our country. National law universities, Indian Law Institute, state law universities (Tamil Nadu and Karnataka), private law universities (O P Jindal), Law Schools in IITs, Law schools in private universities, government law colleges, university law colleges, private aided law colleges, private unaided law colleges and autonomous law colleges. With the establishment NLSIU in Bangalore and other law universities in the country, legal education has become a sought-after education for students. The competition among various players has contributed to the enhancement of quality in legal education. At the same time, it has also led to commercialisation of legal education which cannot be undermined.

As a law student, you consistently excelled in academics. What are the most important tips that you would like to share with law students for consistently excelling in academics?

One has to be regular to classes, punctual, hardworking, and complete the portion covered by the teacher that day itself. A student has to actively participate in moot courts, debates and other competitions. He should be in the library after class hours for studies and make effective use of e-library. He should regularly consult teachers for clarifications without shying away. He should promptly refer to dictionaries and encyclopaedias for understanding difficult words. He should not proceed further without understanding the sentence or paragraph he is reading. He should make notes and make periodic revision of the areas he has already covered. He should work with reputed lawyers, judges and firms as an intern. He should be active in the class, with friends, peers, teachers and everyone connected with law. These are tips to students to excel in academics.

Do you feel that there are differences between students of ‘elite’ law schools and students from other law colleges and traditional universities?

There is a gap between students in elite law schools and others. However, this is not to overlook some of the excellent students in other law colleges. Most eminent lawyers and judges of the country are from traditional law colleges. Students of elite law colleges have many advantages. They have good infrastructure, faculty, library, opportunities to participate in moot court and other competitions, etc. Their elitist background and environment also helps them in performing better. Sometimes this background itself may become a disadvantage. There is a possibility of elitist students becoming overconfident and slipping into undesired activities.

What are your views on the future of Indian legal education? How would you suggest that the legal fraternity manages to stay ahead?

There is a wide scope for legal education in India not only for our students but also for those coming from abroad. India has become an education destination for students coming from third world countries. The legal fraternity is required to build and continuously work on various areas of legal education by updating curricula and pedagogy, updating of library, honing professional skills, building vibrant professional networks on social media and professional online platforms, building a network of alumni and professionals, entering into collaborations and MOUs with reputed institutions and above all, to keep continuously working on every aspect of legal academics to stay ahead in this highly competitive world.

What would be your advice to young law students? How do you think that they should approach their career?

Law students in India are becoming more and more smart and career oriented by making good use of e-libraries and internet. Every student should have a clear perception about his career. He must develop alternative plans (Plan-A, Plan-B, etc.) so that frustration does not creep in. In the new e-environ, they should not forget to read physical books and write and keep their reading and writing skills intact. This will take them into their careers in a better manner. Students should strive to get into litigation as a first priority so that courts get qualitative lawyers. As many NLU products are opting for corporate jobs their latent talent and skills are not expressed fully. Furthermore, they stagnate in their career after some time leading to frustration. Therefore, entering jobs should be the next priority. They can also think of establishing law corporates by finding venture capitalists and angel investors and think of working in ADRs, LPOs and many other para-legal domains. Students should do independent research, take counselling from peers and teachers and inputs from their friends before making any decision. Of course, at the end of the day, the decision must be theirs.

You have worked both in NLU’S and NON-NLU. Can you share your advice “How a law student can bridge the gap between NLU’S and NON-NLU”.

There is a typical status and aura about NLUs in the country. There is a separate test, CLAT, for admission into NLUs, paving way only for the creamy layer students to enter into these institutions. Expenses also forbid others from entering NLUs. Hence, NLUs have become elitist legal education centres and islands of excellence (not all of them of course). Others are essentially non-elitist; but there are some very good law colleges in this sector also, not just competing with NLUs but also marching ahead of some of the NLUs. Newly emerging private universities are posing a big challenge to NLUs. Pace has already been set with regard to tough competition between NLUs and some of these other legal education institutions. The real gap is between NLUs (along with other elitist law schools in the urban) and the other law colleges (including the ones in rural areas). This gap can be plugged by using the benefits available under projects like NME-ICT (National Mission for Education though Information and Communication Technology) and NKN (National Knowledge Commission). These projects of the central government are launched to bridge the gap between rural and urban educational institutions by establishing virtual class rooms, weekly discussions, retrievable AV content, etc.

Any time management tip for Law students?

Students should build timeline for their studies, get up at 4 or 4.30 in the morning, do some exercises and yoga to keep the body and mind fit for the day, jot down the tasks for the day, earmark a minimum of six to eight hours to study, use with restraint mobile phones and social networks, spend more time online in perusing legal professional networks and platforms, develop effective online reading skills, spend some time with friends, faculty and peers, involve in sports and cultural activities so as to develop total personality. While going to bed in the night reflect whether the tasks jotted down in the morning are completed.

What is your vision for NLU Assam? Where would you like to see NLU Assam 10 years down the line?

NLUJAA is a young and emerging institution with some unique advantages. Its campus location is wonderful with the Brahmaputra River flowing on one side and an imposing mountain with woods on the other side providing a serene atmosphere to conduct academic activities and also to develop it into a green campus. Another unique feature is that National Law University Assam has Judicial Academy Assam on its campus providing an additional advantage to the faculty and students to interact closely with the judges and judge trainees.

My vision of NALUJAA is to build it into a world class legal education institution with an avowed objective of leading from the front multi-task projects aimed at transforming Assam and the north eastern India into a legally conscious society and develop an atmosphere of respect for rule of law. Towards achieving this, the University will make all efforts to provide quality legal education at under graduate and post graduate level; and build an army of law graduates who will dedicate themselves in building India as a legalitarian-egalitarian society, by putting service before self wherever possible. Various law centres (17 of them are already established in the cutting edge knowledge of law) established in the University will undertake research projects in the focussed areas in the concerned discipline of legal knowledge and work in close liaison with public institutions, NGOs and civil society with the commitment to provide legal knowledge and legal literacy to the people of north eastern states in particular and the country as a whole in general. The University aims at building customised research projects that are socially relevant for the north eastern region such as Brahmaputra water management and regulation, legal protection of mega-biodiversity of the region, local cultural laws, Indian jurisprudence, regulation of petroleum and natural energy resources, legal protection of indigenous knowledge through intellectual property rights, issues relating to promotion of regional international business, trade and commerce, issues relating to labour and child labour specially in tea estates, problem of child trafficking, legal aid and legal literacy, etc.

Our dream is to build a vibrant national law university that caters to the law and justice needs of people in the north eastern region in particular and the country in general by providing qualitative legal education through usage of the most modern IT tools to access legal knowledge domain.

Poorvi Sanjanwala graduated in law with a gold medal from the Mumbai University in the year 2003 and went on to complete her Masters in Commerce from the same University.

She is currently a partner at Rajani Associates and handles the Private Equity and Merger & Acquistion practice (the acquisitions side) in the Firm.

In this interview she talks about:

• Essentials of a Good Corporate Lawyer

• Experience working in a Corporate Firm

• Challenges and hurdles in Merger and Acquisition Practice

• Her view on Make in India campaign

HOW WOULD YOU INTRODUCE YOURSELF TO OUR READERS?

I am Poorvi Sanjanwala and am a partner at Rajani Associates, a Mumbai based law-firm. I handle the Private Equity and Merger and Acquistion practice (the acquisitions side) in our Firm.

WHAT INSPIRED YOU TO JOIN THE PROFESSION OF LAW? IF NOT LAW THEN WHAT WOULD HAVE BEEN YOUR CAREER INTEREST?

I have always been interested in all things legal even when I was in college, I recollect deliberating a bit more upon newspaper articles which reported commercial judgements or interesting case-laws. Added to that is the fact that I am very fond of drafting, so law had to be an obvious option. If it were not law, I would have probably pursued an MBA.

HOW IMPORTANT ARE INTERNSHIPS FOR A LAW STUDENT? TELL US ABOUT YOUR INTERNSHIP EXPERIENCES WHILE AT UNIVERSITY

Internships I believe are extremely important not only from a knowledge-building perspective but from a specialisation identification perspective. Internships enable a student to obtain a more in-depth knowledge of various laws particularly from a practical perspective. Internships also go a long way in honing analytical skills further and enable students to come up-to-speed on laws and judgements as part of research or assignments they may be involved in, in the course of their internship. Internships do, I believe, also help students in identifying with more clarity the area of specialisation they wish to pursue and also prepare them more effectively from a practical standpoint, for life as a lawyer once they graduate. And yes, internships are at many times, a very good platform for talent to come to fore and be recognised as well. Unfortunately I did not intern during my university days so as such there is no specific experience I would be able to share with the readers in this regard.

WHAT ARE THE OPPORTUNITIES THAT THE PRACTICE HAS TO OFFER? WHAT ARE THE ESSENTIAL REQUIREMENTS TO BE A GOOD CORPORATE LAWYER?

Our Firm is a full service Law Firm with the corporate law practice areas being the pivots. Our practice areas include PE, M&A, Capital Markets (International and Domestic), Projects and Project Finance, Dispute Resolution, Intellectual Property, Real Estate, Banking and Finance and ofcourse General Corporate and Commercial.

The essential requirements to be a good corporate lawyer, would be, first ofcourse be interest in the corporate laws domain as a whole, followed by good drafting skills, since any transaction/assignment in any these practice areas do involve significant documentation and where more often than not, no two documents are alike and entail customisation which is transaction specific. Coupled with drafting are negotiation skills, since again transactional documentation almost always involves counter-parties and where finalisation of such documents involves negotiations and lastly, good inter-personal skills and team spirit.

HOW WOULD YOU COMPARE INDEPENDENT PRACTICE TO JOINING A LAW FIRM?

Having worked with law firms since I qualified, I don’t think I would be in a position to throw much light on this. Having said this, starting off- independently is at the other end of the spectrum from working in a firm. There are various factors which culminate into a decision for any person to start off on their own and pose its own set of challenges.

CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT YOUR EXPERIENCE AT THE FIRM AND WHAT MOTIVATED YOU TO JOIN RAJANI ASSOCIATES?

(Ms. Poorvi Sanjanwala have been with Rajani Associates for more than a decade)

The experience has been very enriching. Rajani Associates is the place where I have gained and continue to gain my knowledge of corporate laws and my transactional experience in the PE and M&A spaces. I have also been fortunate to have had very good seniors, particularly Mr. Prem Rajani, the Firm’s Managing Partner, who have also been very encouraging and have had the patience to discuss transactional aspects as a transaction progresses (and not just a post completion analysis or review). As a Firm, apart from the emphasis on close attention to detail and effective client interaction, Rajani Associates gives its lawyers the platform to demonstrate their skills in the areas of their practice, believes in placing an equal importance on learning as you work and where every member of the team is encouraged to contribute effectively to transaction closure and given an opportunity to actively participate in transactions. Coupled with this, is a good working environment and you have all the ingredients of a great working place and enormous opportunities for career growth.

YOU HANDLE VARIOUS ASSIGNMENTS WITH RESPECT TO THE MERGERS & ACQUISITIONS. WHAT ARE THE BIGGEST HURDLES AND CHALLENGES IN THE IN THIS AREA OF PRACTICE?

I would not say that there are hurdles in either the PE or the M&A space. Yes transactions are challenging and at times demanding but which transaction is not? It is the challenges which make each transaction a unique learning curve and also enrich your knowledge and experience in the process. I would say that every transaction I have handled or been part of in the past, has had some or at times a myriad of unique aspects to it, be it the nature of the transaction or its structure or the negotiations that it may have entailed. All transactions and the experiences have been and will continue to be a wonderful learning process for me.

RAJANI ASSOCIATES HAS CONSISTENTLY BEEN RANKED AT THE TOP IN DEALING WITH ASIA-PACIFIC M&A. WHAT IS AN AVERAGE DAY AT WORK LIKE FOR YOU?

An average work day would mean discussing with the team on on-going transactions, taking a round-up on changes that may have been effected to any law and its potential implications and ofcourse working with the team to meet deadlines of any on-going transaction.

THE GOVERNMENT HAS BEGUN DISCUSSIONS TO PERMIT THE ENTRY OF FOREIGN LAW FIRMS AND LAWYERS INTO INDIA. IN YOUR OPINION, HOW WILL THIS AFFECT THE PROFESSION?

How the actual entry of the foreign law firms will pan out, will ultimately depend on the fine print of the rules which will regulate their entry and operations into the Indian legal practice arena. As such it would be pre-mature to comment in detail at this juncture. Needless however it would be to state that the advent of foreign law firms will be a game-changer of sorts once all decks are cleared for their entry.

THERE IS ONGOING CAMPAIGN FOR “MAKE IN INDIA”, “START-UP INDIA” AND “SKILL INDIA”. IS OUR LEGAL SYSTEM MATURE ENOUGH FOR SUCH DEVELOPMENTS OR IS THERE A NEED FOR REFORM?

I believe the legal system is mature enough. This initiative of the Government is an important and welcome step in providing an impetus to growth and development of the country as a whole by nurturing skills and ideas to translate them into opportunities for businesses thereby generating employment and bringing self-reliance in sectors which were earlier import dependant or at the nascent stages of development. At the same time it also seeks to encourage multi-nationals and other global level players to set shop in India thereby also enabling the Country to not only benefit from investment and capital but also in opening up new opportunities for new/enhanced skill sets, technologies, employment opportunities and other ancillary benefits thereby propelling the growth story further. Keeping this objective in mind, the Government has introduced several measures for the ease of entrepreneurs to start and operate their businesses, initiated consequential changes in legislation, introduced reforms, including the liberalisation of receipt of foreign direct investment in various sectors which will go a long way in making the “Make in India” concept a winner all the way in achieving its intended objectives.

THE GOVERNMENT HAS BROUGHT INTO FORCE THE COMPANIES (MEDIATION AND CONCILIATION) RULES 2016 TO GIVE EFFECT TO SECTION 442 OF THE COMPANIES ACT. HOW WILL THIS AFFECT THE CORPORATE SECTOR?

As the Companies (Mediation and Conciliation) Rules, 2016 are a very recent introduction that is, the notification in this regard has been issued in September 2016 only, its impact and its success as also the ability of this mechanism to reduce the burden on the judiciary will have to be reviewed as the extent to which parties to a dispute will take recourse to it for the purposes of resolution of their disputes will have to be gauged with the passage of time.

WHAT ADVICE DO YOU WISH TO GIVE TO YOUNG LAW STUDENTS AND YOUNG LAWYERS, LOOKING FORWARD TO JOIN A CORPORATE LAW FIRM?

Joining a corporate law firm as most of the readers would be aware, is a demanding but at the same time challenging as well. Coupled with this, it also entails the pre-requisite of keeping continuously abreast with current laws, possessing good negotiation, drafting skills and analytical skills and working well in a team. Other equally important aspects are effective communication and inter-personal skills which are critical in team and client interaction as also during negotiation of agreements.

WHAT WOULD BE YOUR PARTING MESSAGE TO OUR READERS?

If you love the work you do and put all your efforts into what you do at your work place whole-heartedly, then this is what will make the entire journey an enjoyable, enriching and successful experience.

Shatarupa Mishra graduated from Symbiosis Law School in 2013. She is a lawyer by interest, civil servant by profession and dancer by passion. Currently, she is training as an INDIAN REVENUE SERVICE OFFICER-Income Tax in National Academy of Direct Taxes, Nagpur after clearing Civil Service Examination 2014.

In this interview she talks to us about:

• How she developed interest in reading and writing.
• What inspired her to appear for civil service exam?
• When should a person ideally start preparation for the civil services exam?
• Easiest and toughest part for preparation.
• Aspects that a civil service aspirant must focus on and start preparing for in advance.

Please introduce yourself to the readers. Please tell us a little bit about your childhood and your background.

Hello friends! I am Shatarupa Mishra, lawyer by interest, civil servant by profession and dancer by passion. Currently I am training as an INDIAN REVENUE SERVICE OFFICER-Income Tax in National Academy of Direct Taxes, Nagpur after clearing Civil Service Examination 2014.

My schooling has been in De Paul School in a small town Berhampur and subsequently in St. Joseph’s High School, Bhubaneshwar, the capital. I was extremely active in extracurricular activities like writing, dancing and singing. Both me and my elder sister started training in Odissi, the classical dance of Odisha  and other dance forms.

Infact I started performing in stage shows and dance festivals from a very young age of 4 years and those childhood memories of dancing remain the most cherished. I was also the house captain in my school.

What impressed upon you the idea to study law?

Frankly speaking, I wanted to pursue law when I realized after two years of science in intermediate level, I did not want to pursue Engineering or Medicine, the two most preferred options at that time. Browsing through the law syllabus in my +2 2^nd years, my interest was piqued and I thought graduation in law would bode well for me. My choice was very instinctive and it worked out well.

How was your experience at Symbiosis Law School, Pune. What activities were you involved in apart from the regular academic curriculum?

My five years in Symbiosis Law School was very enjoyable and memorable. Right from academics to internships to pro-bono activities to extracurricular activities, Symbiosis gives you a wide platform for everything.  From my 1^st year itself, I took an active part in extracurricular activities like dancing and participated in many college fests. Timings of law school were such that we could pursue our other hobbies and interests in the later part of the day. Second year onwards, I started mooting and was fortunate enough to be a part of our college team in Jessups. Mooting piqued my interest in legal research and I subsequently wrote many legal essays in pre-final and final year. Being a part of the very active Human Rights Cell of our college for all five years, I loved teaching young kids from underprivileged background and spending time with them on weekends.

I loved learning law for the sake of itself and was extremely diligent about my studies and projects. The cherry on the cake was when I was awarded a scholarship for academic excellence in my fourth year and the Chancellors Gold medal for topping my batch in BA LLB course.

How did you develop your interest in reading and writing?

Reading was my favourite pastime since childhood. If I was not dancing, I was reading. Both my parents, grandparents are voracious readers and encouraged me to develop reading habit. At home there was already a huge library to pick books from.   I have many pleasant memories of visiting book shops and exhibitions with my father and buying loads of books, all non-academic of course. If there was a book club in my city, I was a member in it. In school also, my favorite subject was English literature. My reading habit almost borders on obsession, my family tells me, ha-ha! In childhood, I started writing poems and subsequently, articles. My mother also writes poems in Odia language and she has been a major motivation behind my writing.  Law School and preparation for civil service examinations only enhanced my interest and skills in writing articles.

When and what inspired you to appear for Civil Service Exam?

I believe it was a very conscious choice to appear for Civil Service Exam. I belong to a family of state and central civil servants, so somewhere the inspiration to be one myself was right at home. My biggest inspiration has been my father who is respected by all as an honest, upright and efficient officer in the State Government. Dinner table conversations have many a times, been about development, administration and issues therein.  Secondly, I was keen to be in a profession which offered me a wide platform to work in law, policy and implementation. My legal training actually strengthened my resolve to sit for this examination. Thirdly the syllabus of the civil services exam piqued my interest, particularly the general studies papers.  Keeping all these factors in mind, I eliminated other career options in law in fifth year of law school so that I would never regret the decision of appearing for this examination. I was fortunate that I got a mentor in Pune, Shri Aashay Abhyankar, who along with his family, has played a stellar role in my success.

When did you start preparing for the exam? When should a person ideally start preparation for the civil services exam?

I started preparing for this examination immediately after graduating from law school in 2013.  I really wanted to clear the examination in my first attempt itself and join the services at a young age so I wanted to give it my full focus the first time around.

As regards the second part of your question, I believe once the person is sure that this is what he wants to achieve, then that time automatically becomes the most ideal for preparation. Hence, to each his own.

How many hours did you put in for your preparations every day? Is having a fixed schedule or weekly targets important according to you?

I used to fix daily targets and accordingly work to complete them, so there was no fixed number of hours. On an average, it ranged from 6-8 hours daily.  Rest of the time was spent in reading newspapers, surfing the net or carrying out other hobbies.

Yes having a fixed schedule and weekly targets is important as I have personally benefited from such meticulous planning.

Which were the easiest and toughest parts of your preparation?

The easiest part was reading newspapers and making notes from them and studying the general studies papers which are exhaustive but highly interesting as well. History,  culture, polity, foreign affairs are topics that I loved to read and analyze.  The toughest part for was staying away from my family, and friends as I was preparing in Pune while my family stays in Bhubaneshwar.

What are the aspects that a civil service aspirant must focus on and start preparing for in advance?

A civil service aspirant should first know how to read the newspaper for this examination. Then preparation becomes very easy and interesting as one can interlink concepts with current affairs, analyze and present  in a unbiased manner. My preparation for civil services was very newspaper-oriented and it held me in good stead throughout all three levels.

What were the attributes of your legal education and background which helped you in succeeding in the civil service exam?

I would attribute my success in first attempt to legal education in a lot of ways. As law students, we are used to processing copious amounts of information and presenting them in answers. Secondly writing subjective answers in limited time, a skill acquired during law school, is an asset while writing the Civil Services (Main) Examinations. In all my mock tests and the mains examination I never faced the issue of time management. Thirdly, integrated law course already gives you an insight into general humanities subjects in the initial years like political science, history, sociology, etc which is somewhat registered in your mind. The only catch here is to keep legalese and biased viewpoints out of your preparation and remembers that this examination wants administrators and not lawyers at the end of the day and moulds yourself accordingly.

What is the importance of CGPA for law students especially for Civil Service exam aspirant? Does it make any difference during the interview?

More than CGPA, it is the grasp over syllabus and overall analytical skills that matter most for law students in civil service examination. Having said that, I believe a decent CGPA would always be an asset to the law student, be it in this examination, or legal jobs or pursuing higher studies, etc.

I can answer the second question only from my own experience. As I was the batch topper with a high CGPA, I was apprehensive that they could ask me a lot of law-related questions expecting accurate answers. And this is what happened I was asked factual questions spanning multiple law subjects. However, the interview experience is very subjective and nothing is a precedent.

Tell us about your interview? What kinds of questions were asked by the interview board?

My interview was on the afternoon session on 15^th May, 2015. It was chaired by Prof. David Sylimlieh. As discussed above, mostly factual and legal questions were asked which I could answer racking law notes in my mind at that very instant.

What would be your message for law students who are preparing or planning to prepare to appear for the Civil Service exam?

I personally feel that with the hard work, perseverance and right guidance, it is not difficult for a law student to clear these Examinations. Civil Services involve law interpretation and implementation, public administration and management, which law students imbibe in their five-year long erudition. So they should approach this examination with full focus and determination, if they choose to appear for it. Success shall definitely follow.

Lastly, what would be your message for the readers who want to pursue career in Civil Services?

Readers wanting to pursue a career should first be clear about why they want to pursue it. Once they have decided, they should just focus and plunge into the syllabus with full determination.  Enjoy the process of learning and studying for this examination and before you realize, success shall be yours! God Bless.

K Satish Kumar graduated in B.Com and thereafter qualified in law in 1995 from Sambalpur University, he is also a Certified Management Accountant from ICWAI. Having worked at multiple corporate bodies as an in-house legal counsel, Satish is currently the Global Head – Legal at Ramco Systems in Chennai. Satish additionally has several publications to his name and has done much work in the way of Pro Bono activities to give back to society.

In this interview, Satish talks to us about:

• His introduction to the legal profession, and his experience as a lawyer since then.
• His plethora of publications, and his advice on the best way to go about writing and publishing articles
• Pro Bono work, giving back to society, and the ways in which he keeps up to date with the ever-changing subject that is Law

How did you choose Law? Did you always know that this was what you wanted to do?

In fact my choosing law was not deliberate and intentional. I started my career as a Finance Professional after completing my ICWA (currently known as CMA). I had parallely completed my Law Degree as well. However, Finance and Legal being closely related, I found out that I had a good aptitude for Law. That is when – even after starting my career in Finance – I switched over to Law, and with God’s grace, I am doing well and creating a niche for myself in the Legal Profession.

In any organization, the Legal Unit are always regarded as the “Deal Makers”. You also resort to Legal when you have to be bailed out of any crisis. Legal plays an important role in “Crisis Management”. So the Legal Unit becomes most important either way – be it bringing revenue to the organization or pulling it out of some crisis. These are some of the selfish reasons which made me swing sides to Law.

You have a lot of work experience, from working at a vast array of places. Can you tell us a little about your career graph up to this point?

Yes, I carry more than 20 years of rich working experience in multiple MNC’s. I am very passionate about Law and that is what made me a Successful Professional.  I have working experience from Fortune 10 companies to Indian grown or growing companies like, HCL Technologies, Polaris Financial Technology (later on the product division split to Intellect Design Arena Ltd), Ramco Systems Ltd. I was fortunate to get the right breaks at the right time. I also carry some critical experience working abroad. So truly, I became a Global and a Cosmopolitan Professional.

However, initially I started off my professional working in few indigenous companies in India. But I was fortunate to work with some industry trendsetters.  My desire to learn new businesses and passion to explore all new possibilities has helped me in my career growth progression.

You have received lot of awards in your career. Can you please tell the young lawyers few things about it, please?

Yes, I am the proud winner of many awards during the progression of my career, both abroad and in India. I have successfully negotiated and closed many contracts, structured and finalized joint ventures, cross border investments etc. I was also successful in closing many litigations. There was a time when my colleagues used to call me “the person with Midas’ touch”. In Polaris I was also called “The Deal Maker”.

For all the achievements mentioned above and others, I was the proud winner of awards like

• Konark Excellence Award
• Gem Award
• America’s Most Wanted Person by US Sales Team
• Annual Excellence Award
• Person Making a Difference

You have a great deal of publications to your name. Do you write about things you think are relevant and have scope for research, about things that interest you personally, or is it a blend of the two?

Yes, this is a very interesting question. I am happy to have many publications to my credit. I love writing – writing on relevant current Legal topics. I have written on Risk Mitigation, Open Source, Rent Control Act, etc. Some of my writings are also published in National and International Business Journals. Someday, I am sure my wish of publishing my own book on Legal topics is going to come true. Some of the links to my publications are given below.

• Article on “Software companies can hedge against risks, with insurance cover.” Published in Business Daily “Business Line” dated April 6, 2009

http://www.thehindubusinessline.in/ew/2009/04/06/stories/2009040650090300.htm

• Article on “Closure of Business Deals” Published in Business Daily “Business Line” dated August 20, 2007

http://www.thehindubusinessline.in/ew/2007/08/20/stories/2007082050100300.htm

• Article on “Open Source Software – sans the risk” Published in Business Daily “Business Line” dated November 19, 2007

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/ew/2007/11/19/stories/2007111950090301.htm

Could you also please tell our readers interested in publishing their own work what you think the best way to go about the same is?

You should first start writing on subjects that is of interest to yourself. Writing on things you are passionate about will help further to strengthen your grasp of the subject. One may start first writing blogs and over a period of time these blogs can be converted to articles and reports in business journals. You should take care of the following while writing.

As a first step you should select a topic that interests you, and focus on it for at least a week or two. Write a rough draft, including everything that you can think of. Stay loose, avoid getting analytical and enjoy the process of sharing what you know. You will then be surprised to see that you have a rough skeleton of the draft that you proposed to write.

As a second step you should address your audience’s needs. You already have a skeletal draft. Now change sides and think of yourself as the reader of the draft piece of work that you had written. You should pick few words to describe the audience you want to address. For example, “young legal professionals”. Now, as a young legal professional, what are the questions you would like to ask? Note down these questions.

As a third step you should start doing research. Now start doing a research to get the answers for all your questions noted down above. You should collect everything you have gathered and put it in a folder, or an electronic document, a notebook. You may also want to note the track of the sources so that you may refer them in future when you need it.

As a fourth step you should refresh your draft. Now you may sprinkle the research in the draft that you have already drafted for the right audience. You may just want to revise what you have as you proceed, retaining a nice conversational tone by directly addressing your audience.

As a fifth and final step you should review your draft. You should read, revise and repeat the process a couple of times after giving yourself some time in between the repeat processes. You will be surprised at what you have written and the changes that you keep making to the draft while re-reading it. Publishing the writing in the journals will be tough initially but once you start publishing the process will be set in your mind and it will be easier for you to write and publish in future.

You strongly believe in spreading legal awareness to both laymen in the field of Law, as well as the younger generations of upcoming professionals in the legal field. Could you tell us a little about why Legal Awareness is so relevant?

We usually ensure that our wealth gets transferred to our next generation through whatever way possible, like filling nomination in our Bank accounts/insurance accounts, Will writing, settlement deeds etc. But seldom do we think of transferring our intellectual wealth to the next generation. If the intellectual knowledge of Aryabatta and Einstein were transferred now to the next generation then we would be sitting rich on various inventions and patents and the world would be completely different now with many more such Aryabattas and Einsteins. But that is not the real scenario. Hence, it is very critical that our intellectual knowledge also gets transferred to the next generation. This is only possible if you transfer your learnings to your teammates and other budding professionals in the field. There are many nuances that we learn from experience, and it is worthwhile to transfer this to the next generation so that the profession becomes richer and more valuable with the passage of time.

Tell us a little about your Pro Bono Activity. You have amassed a huge followers for the same. What kind of queries do you usually address?

We derive a lot of benefit from this society. The society has made us what we are today – experienced professionals. We have an obligation towards the society. Everyone in their lifetime has one or other legal problem. But everyone may not be able to afford the best lawyers in the world. That is where we can step in and make a difference. A piece of genuine advice, counselling, direction, opinion will make a world of difference to these people. For me it doesn’t really cost much. But it gives me immense satisfaction when I see the smiling face at the other end after my counselling or legal advice.

But I have to reach the people. That is when I decided to reach people through social media. Facebook, Linkedin, Twitter, Google+ were some of the mediums which I adopted to reach the people. I was surprised at the response levels. In a very short period, I had a fan following club of over 6000 people. People approached me with different problems. Some wanted to know the process to adopt a child, some wanted to reconcile with their spouse, property disputes among legal heirs, child abuse, work place bullying or abuse, sexual harassment etc. I ensure that just as I give some time to my family, I also give some time to the society. This has given me a lot of moral satisfaction.

Pro bono makes me happier. Participating on such activities also provide opportunities to make personal connections with people who share your interests. Indeed, social connection is the greatest predictor of happiness.

The very purpose of pro bono work is to assist those who desperately need help with something that’s really important, but for which they have no resources themselves. We are fortunate to be lawyers. We are among the lucky few to survive all the obstacles of becoming (and staying) lawyers. We are among the few who can make the legal system work for people who have nothing to give us but their gratitude.

It helps to pursue my own interest and passions while helping others.

During my early phase of career such pro bono legal work provided me a training ground. I was a junior lawyer earlier and did not have much autonomy for several years. Such Pro bono work in the initial phases of my career provided early opportunities for depositions, building client relationships, arguing motions, first-chairing trials and other valuable work experience to build skills and confidence.

Charitable and pro bono legal work provides me opportunities to meet people with very different backgrounds and interests whom I may not otherwise meet in my daily life. Fundraising for charities, serving as a board member for a nonprofit organization and the like connected me with local business leaders and lead to new friends.

How do you stay updated with the happenings not only in the world at large, but also with the relevant happenings in the legal field?

I have joined many legal professional associations both in India and international levels. These associations are large number of similar professionals who are successful in their own fields. Interacting with them is very useful in developing ourselves.

I have also subscribed to various legal bulletins. Laws are constantly changing and what was right yesterday could be illegal today. I keep myself updated reading legal decisions, and legislative and regulatory news and changes. They help me a lot to keep up to date with the dynamic legal field.

There are various E-law tools which publish their own exhaustive law guides. The E-Laws Advisor tool simulates the interactions that a client might have with a professional. I can ask questions and it provides answers. I have privileged access to such E-laws tools.

I also attend conferences across the globe. I interact with various professionals from Legal and other fields. This is a constant learning process and helps me understand their views too. The key benefit of attending this kind of conference is that I will be able to network and interact with key legislative decision makers and can make my views known to them.

There are range of resources and communication channels for any professionals in order to both familiarize themselves and remain up to date with current law and trends. New technology is making it possible for this to be accessed on demand via the internet or “pushed out” to professionals via newsletters or tweets or other social media. One should only have desire to learn and keep the mind open. I make it a point to learn at least one new law every day.

In your opinion, what should young students of Law prioritize as they lay the foundation for their career?

Fresh law graduates and young students must, first of all identify the career of their interest before initiating actions in specific direction. For example, judiciary might interest some students and some might be interested in being in corporate working as a legal consultant or in-house legal officer; others might be interested in opting for litigation as a professional career. Hence, it is very important to find out what career path attracts one the most.

Another crucial thing is to identify the area of their interest: it is very important for a student to know  which specific field of law is most suitable for them, based on their level of understanding in particular subjects. Some students might be very good in understanding criminal laws whereas comparatively weak in understanding commercial and business laws. Such students must consider their incline towards criminal law while choosing career options for themselves. Such students may opt for litigation or working under a lawyer who deals with criminal law. While students who have better understanding of taxation laws, company law, labor laws, intellectual property laws, etc. should prefer working in corporates or as an IP attorney or under a corporate lawyer.

Once after a student has decided the chosen field of law and to start his / her professional career, he / she must join an organization or a lawyer with which / whom he / she can get enriching professional experience. First work experience is very important specifically for a legal professional as it implants the roots of one’s entire professional career. Student must give first consideration to the quality of work his/her chosen career option can provide. Further professional developments majorly depend on one’s first career decision and the learning experience during initial years of one’s career.

From a different perspective, students should also be aware and mentally prepared of the fact that theoretical understanding and practical application of law widely differs. It is very usual for a law professional to come across dicey situations every single day. Thus, it is necessary for a student to develop a habit of thinking in order to find an amicable solution of any problem keeping in mind both legal acumen and practical feasibility. In this aspect, a few internship experiences in addition to legal studies from a reputed institution can be an added advantage.

What kind of audience do you typically see at your seminars? What kind of awareness do you usually direct at them?

(Satish actively participates in Legal Seminars conducted in various cities all over India in an endeavor to bring awareness to the young generations of lawyers and other professionals in the field of Law.)

Yes, I am regularly invited by “The Associated Chambers of Commerce & Industry of India” (ASSOCHAM), “Confederation of Indian Industries” (CII), other Legal bodies to spread disseminate legal knowledge among the next generation lawyers.

This is also a good platform to identify young and bright lawyers who require mentoring. I can easily identify the desire and passion in them as they keep coming to me with various intelligent questions and try to enrich themselves. Such bright lawyers should be given an opportunity to grow – to take advantage of all the experience that I have developed over the years.

I also get an opportunity to interact with inventors, industrialists, scientists, authors, businessmen, investors, financiers, etc and get different viewpoints on the same topic.  This helps us to re-look, re-think and reposition ourselves on any topic which has various stakeholders. I learn through this process of interacting with top professionals. In order to keep ourselves abreast of new developments, we have to constantly learn. Such seminars play a useful role and are beneficial to me too.

In your opinion, what are the most important skills any young lawyer should cultivate?

As a young lawyer, when you are just starting your career in law, it can be a challenging to stay on top of everything. There seems to be an endless list of new skills and information that you need to learn. It is in fact all about getting back to basics.

As a young lawyer, you should be a good listener. When given instructions by a client or another member of your team, listen carefully. It is important that you understand what you have been asked to do. You may ask plenty of questions, take detailed notes. This may help in giving a proper response.

As a young lawyer you should develop a good communication skill: The success of a lawyer depends on the communication skill. You are as good as you communicate. You should develop good written and oral communication, paying attention to details, listen while others speak, professionalism, using office technologies like email and word processing, critical reading and comprehension, synthesizing facts and law, legal reasoning, organizational skills, interpersonal skills, working within established time constraints, issue spotting and finally decisiveness.

As a young lawyer you should learn to maintain written records. Keeping good written records can save you in times of trouble. So it is a vital discipline to learn to maintain written records.

What are the biggest challenges faced by the modern day lawyers?

The legal profession is a competitive one. Yes, it always has been, but these days—with rapid changes in the way we practice law, it seems to be even more so. The integration of worldwide financial and commercial markets has occurred at an astonishing speed over the last couple of decades. Market participants now routinely lend, borrow, invest, trade, hedge and pledge and do business in jurisdictions other than their own. They expect their lawyers to tag along with them in these global adventures.

For the lawyers, compulsory cosmopolitanism can be discomforting. It isn’t just that laws and judicial procedures differ from one jurisdiction to another. It is something more subtle. Lawyers trained in different legal systems may approach legal problems, client relations, professional etiquette, ethical questions, legal drafting, and correct professional demeanor in remarkably different ways.

Nowadays, the clients’ expectations are more than ever sky high and on-demand. Access to the internet provides potential clients with access to legal information at their fingertips. They are empowered by technology, and they expect that their attorneys will be proactive in finding ways to be efficient and offering options and solutions in terms of results. This can strain relationships between lawyers and their clients, which puts additional pressure on lawyers to find ways to meet these expectations.

With the access people have to information today it’s becoming more common for legal clients to have done research on their own prior to speaking with their lawyers. This has changed the role of the lawyer to educating the client in new ways like sorting through reliable and unreliable information the client may have found in their research.

Technology has also allowed for the creation of various cheap legal service providers from paralegal. There is a gross oversupply of law schools and this glut still plagues the legal profession today.

These paralegal have cropped up all over the internet, city, offering low-cost legal services at very attractive proposition for those seeking what they know can be costly services.

Globalization and competition are another challenge that the lawyers face.

In today’s global economy, lawyers may face barriers in expanding practices overseas.

Countries around the globe are asking themselves if easing rules for attorneys to practice in foreign countries is helpful or hurtful. There’s no clear answer, and countries are handling it in various ways.

New regulations and laws constantly come. Law is an evolving subject. Lawyers have to constantly update themselves so that they are not left behind.

What is the future of Legal Profession?

Law is a dynamic field. The practice of law is changing, but it has always been changing. In the 19th century, there was a major transition from small sole practitioner type of firms with law clerks to the beginning of the modern larger firms that specializes in certain areas. With the development and invention of technology like typewriter and telephone, computer etc, the profession of law also developed in equal pace. Now modern technology allows all sorts of legal matters at one’s fingertips. A good computer with access to legal research is a great leveler.  But, this world of informational technology has taken away the quality of life from many lawyers. Lawyers are bombarded with emails and other types of electronic messages from clients 24 hours a day. Going on vacation becomes almost an impossibility—at least on a vacation where one gets away from their work. Essentially law is a 24/7 practice with emails coming in day and night, on all holidays, weekends, etc. This massive and useless over-communication takes a huge amount of time, and at the same time is unproductive.

With the technology, the nature of the practice of law has begun to shift. What the future of law will look like in the next 50 years remains unknown. The fear is that it will driven by technology and not the human side. Will law remain a profession, or will law change to be a business driven by technology? Only time will be able to answer this question.

What message would you like to leave our young readers?

Be open and try to absorb and learn as much as possible. The early phase in your career is a learning phase and later on you can only get better. The more you learn, the more experience you gain. You should also try to get a good academic record and in parallel maintain good extra-curricular activities. Try to get good internship experiences.

Ramanand Mundkur graduated from National Law School of India University (1989-1994). He is the managing partner of Mundkur Law Partners, and heads its corporate, M&A and life science practices. He has over twenty years of international work experience, having previously worked with the International Monetary Fund in Washington DC, the United Nations in Geneva, and Arthur Andersen in India before setting up MLP in 2007.

Ramanand won multiple academic gold medals when graduating from India’s leading National Law School, and also holds a master’s degree from Harvard Law School, where he was a Langdon E. Gammon fellow and a Myer and Etta Dana scholar. He is qualified to practice law in India and New York.

In this interview he talks to us about:

• His areas of interest in law.
• His experience at International Monetary Fund in Washington DC.
• How his experience at Harvard prepared him for a life of academic prestige and professional success.
• What he looks for in a typical cover letter and CV.

How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

I’m a corporate and transactional lawyer, based out of Bangalore.

What led you to choose legal profession?

I entered law school entirely by accident. A friend suggested me to appear for the NLSIU entrance exam and I got in. But after the first class at NLSIU (which I still remember vividly, with Dr. Menon repeatedly asking us “What is law?” and no answer being complete or satisfactory), I was hooked. I can’t think of any other subject or profession that provides the intellectual fulfillment that law does.

So while I might have chosen law school by accident, I chose the law as a profession very deliberately. I suppose we were incredibly lucky to have been around when NLSIU was just set up, and to have that fantastic group of teachers who kindled our passion for the law.

What were your areas of interest in the law? Did you engage in extracurricular activities while in college?

One of my greatest difficulties has been identifying one or two “areas of interest” in the law—I found them all fascinating. I probably chose corporate law and public international law because they offered economic stability fairly early in my career and because the other areas of law e.g., constitutional law, criminal law, property, evidence, etc. didn’t appeal to me.

Being part of the first few batches of NLSIU, I was lucky enough to be able to participate in pretty much all the extracurricular activities on offer: mooting, debating, quizzes, theatre, music (a bunch of us euphemistically called ourselves a band), cricket, football and whatever else was available to us.

You have worked with the International Monetary Fund in Washington DC. Please share your experience.

The Fund is a fantastic place to work at and I miss both the people there and the work I did. As a lawyer, I initially worked on the legal aspects of Fund relations with member countries (both borrowing countries as well as other Fund members). Over time, the scope of work widened to cover issues such as the Fund’s internal governance rules (including quotas, voting rights, criteria for recognition of new sates and representation) and technical assistance to certain member countries.

As a Managing Partner of the firm, what is an average day at work like?

It’s not as attractive as I hoped it would be. A large part of each day is spent on purely administrative issues. Moreover, because we’re a boutique firm, one has to wear many hats—advising clients, bringing in new work, ensuring we stay current with changes in the law, dealing with HR issues, managing firm finances, dealing with firm IT issues, all the way through to being “chief bottle washer” whenever required.

How well did your experience at Harvard prepare you for a life of academic prestige and professional success?

Harvard is probably the finest example of an enabling environment. As a student there, you’re surrounded by extremely bright, self-motivated individuals and achievers, with infrastructure and resources that are the best in the world. The faculty is outstanding and their areas of work and research are invariably cutting edge or path breaking. At times I felt one could learn and grow just by being there.

What do you want to say to the next generation lawyers? Which are the growing areas of law where a new law student or young lawyer can focus and distinguish himself?

Questions like that tend to be a little depressing (and ageist)—I’m definitely in no position to take on the role of an avuncular eminence grise—advising “the next generation” of lawyers. One bit of experience I would share with law students, though, is to not chase “growing” areas of the law or the next big thing. Instead, and this is pretty obvious: if you do what you enjoy, you’ll find that you enjoy doing what you do!

Do you take interns? What do you look for in a typical cover letter and CV? How can interns manage to get positive feedback in the limited time they have?

Yes, we do have an active internship program that works directly with certain law schools. The law schools that we work with in this regard send us CVs of suggested candidates from their senior batches, and we offer internship slots to those candidates through the law schools. As a result, we often find we don’t have slots available for individual applicants, who haven’t applied through their law schools. We encourage law schools to sign on to this program, and the schools’ placement officers can write to us at careers@mundkur.com for this purpose.

With regard to cover letters and CVs, we look for candidates who have a consistent and reasonably strong academic, and who demonstrate that they’ve spent some time thinking about why they want to apply to our firm, and why our firm might benefit from hiring them.

What would be your advice to our budding lawyers?

I think this question has been answered. And it also reminds me of one other piece of advice I got early in my career and I’m happy to share with budding lawyers: it’s very important for a lawyer to know when to stop speaking.

Bharat Chugh graduated in law from Jamia Millia Islamia in 2011 and thereafter began practicising independently, taking up cases involving a wide range of legal issues, both Civil as well as Criminal. In 2013, at the age of 23, he secured first rank in the prestigious Delhi Judicial Service, in all the three stages of the exam. He joined the Delhi Judicial services as the youngest Civil Judge/Metropolitan Magistrate in his batch. After three and a half years of judgeship, he recently decided to resign and return to the practice of law.

He is also an avid writer, currently working on two books and has various publications to his credit. He is also extremely passionate about mentoring ‘future judges’ and contributing to ‘judicial education’.

With his combined work experience both in litigation and Judgeship, he talks to us about:

• His introduction to the Legal Profession

• The need to reform the system of education

• Trials and Triumphs in Independent practice

• His Journey into Judgeship and

• His return to Litigation

HOW WOULD YOU INTRODUCE YOURSELF TO OUR READERS.

I graduated in law from Jamia Millia Islamia in 2011 and entered the bar at the age of 21; I practiced law independently for about one and a half years before being selected in the Delhi Judicial Service. I joined as a Civil Judge/Metropolitan Magistrate at the age of 23 years. After heading various criminal/civil judgeship assignments and an extremely fulfilling career as a judge, I decided to return back to my first love – the practice of law.

OUR READERS WOULD LOVE TO LEARN A LITTLE MORE ABOUT THE MAN BEHIND THE LAW. TELL US ABOUT YOUR JOURNEY INTO THE FIELD OF LAW.

My father was a practising lawyer, however my initiation in law was by no means a conventional one where a father hands over the baton to his son. My father’s law practice was brought to an abrupt halt when he had a massive stroke. I was 6 years old back then. As a result of which our family’s financial position became extremely precarious. I figured out that a regular school education was not only a needless (and avoidable!) expense, but also kept me from working. I had to contribute to my household in terms of finances, to keep it running. Yes! I am essentially a drop out and left regular schooling after 8^th Standard. However, I continued my education through the Open School, frog leaped some classes and ended up gaining two years in the process. I kept working alongside.

By the age of 13-14 years, I was already accompanying my father to the court, drafting pleadings and arguments. When my classmates were learning the first principles of science and math, or just plain fooling around, I was handling my father’s law practise from a small seat near State Bank of India, right below Tis Hazari Old Nazareth Branch, under the stairs, which was our headquarters. It used to be the hub of all activity. A lot of learning in the actual ways of law happened by osmosis by just being in the middle of the action. Like any other 14 year old, I was at times happy on being excused from the drudgery of banal school work, and at others upset over being plucked rudely from the comforts and certainties of a normal childhood and all that comes with it. However, the early initiation in law, gave me a sense of fortitude and a ‘I can deal with whatever life throws at me’ attitude. I also taught computers, designed websites, worked in a Call Centre for a brief while, just to earn those extra bucks each month. However, what at first blush may appear to be a setback, turned out to be a huge advantage. The exposure to work ethic and law, at a very early age gave me a head-start. Though, I was missing school classes, I was learning some valuable life lessons. This was how I also managed to work my way through college and entered the profession.

“NO TWO PERSONS CAN LEARN SOMETHING AND EXPERIENCE IT IN THE SAME WAY.” CAN THIS IS SAID TO BE APPLICABLE TO THE SYSTEM OF EDUCATION IN INDIA BOTH LAW AND NON-LAW? TELL US ABOUT YOUR EXPERIENCE

I would agree with that. This also explains how different eye witnesses to the same incident give different accounts of it. This also emphasises the need to shift from a conventional text books based learning to experiential learning. It is quite meaningless to talk about isolated learning, especially in the discipline of law, divorced from experience. I must say my early initiation into law and education in the university of adversity and hard knocks of life, set me up in good stead for a career in law.

HOW DO YOU SAY A LAW STUDENT CAN SHAPE UP HIS PROFILE FOR LITIGATION WHILE STILL IN LAW SCHOOL? DOES ACADEMIC WRITING HELP?

A practising lawyer’s language is his foremost stock in trade. Law Students should work on their verbal as well as writing abilities. The ability to articulate even the most complex of issues clearly and succinctly is extremely important for a lawyer. The most successful lawyers are often the people who know the most and can present it most articulately. So while in Law School one should soak up as much as one can. Master your legal concepts. Discuss with your peers, ask questions, attend talks/lectures/seminars. Mooting is also extremely important. It gives one a sense of what it means to be in a court room. I participated in as many moots/quizzes as I could, and as they say, each drop of sweat in practice, saved blood in War. Mooting helps one develop that quality of being able think on one’s feet. It’s like being in a bouncy, even if you fall you don’t get hurt

Academic writing does not only look good on the CV, but helps one understand the first principles of law better. This also helps a student hone his drafting skills.

HOW IMPORTANT DO YOU THINK ARE INTERNSHIPS FOR A LAW STUDENT? WHAT SORT OF INTERNSHIPS DID YOU DO WHILE IN COLLEGE?

Internships are extremely important. I interned with Sr. Advocate Sh. KTS Tulsi, Delhi Legal Services Authority. I also assisted Dr. Tamara Relis from the London School of Economics in some research projects. I also worked briefly as a correspondent for a Law Magazine ‘Legal Era’. All these internships give on quite an insight into law-in-action and an opportunity to survey the legal scene from the shoulders of giants. Throughout this, I also kept assisting my father in his law practice.

I also did a lot of legal aid work in Law School. Me and my friends started a 24 X 7 Legal Aid Cell, and worked in active collaboration with Delhi Legal Services Authority on a lot of projects. These projects gave us a ringside view of the law. The legal aid projects, which were totally selfless, did finally pay off. After I graduated, these cases would go on to be my first briefs and help me enormously in my initial phase as an independent practising lawyer. (Call it Karma!).

SOON AFTER GRADUATION, YOU BEGAN PRACTISING. WHAT CHALLENGES DID YOU FACE IN THE INITIAL DAYS AT THE BAR? ANY MEMORABLE TRIAL COURT EXPERIENCES?

Soon after I graduated, I observed a huge vacuum in traditional litigation scene. In this vacuum – I, as a 21 year old lawyer, saw opportunity. Everyone wants to be a Senior Advocate, but few are willing to pull all-nighters for an important case. I used to take up briefs for what people will consider a pittance, and tried to deliver the best service possible. My previous legal aid experience, publications and frequent court appearances ensured that briefs (though not too well paying initially!) still kept me busy.

During this time, I got to advise my clients on a wide range of legal issues including : Criminal Law, Bail Applications, Injunctions, Conventional Civil, Contract, Property and Commercial litigation, Arbitration, Writ Petitions, Cases relating to Negotiable Instruments, Financial Fraud and Cheating, Matrimonial/Inheritance/ Succession/Guardianship and Custody Laws. I had many overseas clients to whom I rendered advise on various issues relating to interface of foreign law with Indian Legal system, enforceability of foreign judgments/awards in India, anti-suit injunctions, etc. Some very vexed issues indeed !

My favorite court room triumph came in a divorce case where I was cross examining. This was one of my first cross examination cases and I was still pretty naïve in the art. It was a case where I was appearing for the husband in a divorce petition, where he was seeking divorce on the ground of mental cruelty, as his wife had filed a false 498A/ 406 IPC case against him. She had alleged that my client had kept the entire articles of her stridhan and thereby committed criminal breach of trust. The witness in question was the lady’s brother, who had come to depose as to ‘how dutiful his sister was, and it was my client who had treated her cruelly’. As soon as that middle aged North Indian Punjabi Man came into the witness box, I could already see the anger in his gait. He appeared to be a man with an acute sense of honour, and I knew that this potentially might turn out to be his Achilles heel. I planned to hurt his credit and let him burn on his own. I asked him and I remember the exact words : ‘I put it to you, that you have sold all your sister’s gold articles, and misappropriated the money !’ He just blew his top off on this one and launched a scathing attack on how insensitive I was. I politely reminded him to answer the question first. He blurted out “That is incorrect!” He further volunteered: “It still remains with us”. I immediately followed it up with the finishing coup de grace and drove the proverbial last nail in the coffin: “but you haven’t brought it to the court ! You’re lying!” He agreed to bring it to the court on the next date of hearing. I got these two answers recorded and concluded the cross examination. Through these two questions, we were able to demonstrate that the 406 IPC charge levelled against my client was false. If we would have asked him whether they had the gold or not directly, he would have clearly denied the same. My client won the case eventually, and this rather damning admission was one of the factors that weighed heavily with the court. A case won by a single question, and a killer argument; nothing compares to this high. One doesn’t need food or drink for days. This made me really happy and yes, the word spread fast, it fetched me a lot of good clients.

PRIOR TO ENTERING LAW SCHOOL, DID YOU EVER WISH TO BE A JUDGE? WHAT MOTIVATED YOU TO APPLY FOR JUDICIAL EXAMS?

Frankly, No. I shared the prevailing stereotype that one doesn’t get to be judge, unless one has more salt than pepper in his hair. I had never imagined I’d be a judge at 23. Since I was initiated into law when I was still 13-14 years, I always wanted to be a lawyer. In my fourth year of law, I got hooked to reading great Judges like Justice Chinappa Reddy, J. Krishna Iyer, J. Chandrachud, Lord Denning, Oliver Wendel Holmes, Lord Atkin & Justice H.R.Khanna, amongst many others. They inspired me a great deal. I was fascinated with how these judges breathed life into the dead letters of law by creative interpretation, fashioned remedies, where they apparently were none and did substantial justice. During this time only, I first got enamoured with the idea of being a judge. I have seen a lot of injustice and inequity early on in my life, my heart used to be rankled at each injustice. This was a beautiful opportunity to be a part of the solution and actually dispense ‘Justice’. A service that allowed one an enormous ability to correct injustices, contribute to the evolution of law, and at the same time, quench one’s penchant for writing.

NOT ONLY DID YOU SECURE THE FIRST RANK IN THE DELHI JUDICIAL SERVICE EXAMINATION BUT YOU WERE ALSO THE YOUNGEST TO DO SO. WHAT IS THE STRUCTURE OF THE EXAM AND HOW DID YOU ATTACK IT, METAPHORICALLY SPEAKING? WHAT MOTIVATED YOU TO ACCOMPLISH SUCH A FEAT?

I started studying for the Delhi Judicial Service Exam, alongside law practice. I also took took preparatory classes with Mr. Rahul Yadav of RahulsIAS (fondly called ‘Rahul Sir’) at Mukherji Nagar, Delhi. The time at his classes did wonders and really helped me build a strong conceptual base and made my job much easier. I also started teaching my juniors in whatever time I was left with after court, classes and my own studies. It dawned on me that the best way to master a subject is to be able to teach it. All in all, I used to spend at least 8-9 hours a day either studying or teaching.

Armed with about a year of preparation, I appeared for the Delhi Judicial Service Examination (in short ‘DJS’). To give one a fair idea: DJS exam is not rote based exam and is based on real life cases, involving extremely vexed questions of law; issues that have arisen in the recent times before the courts. The examination has the distinction of being the toughest judicial service examination in the country. It is spread over three stages, first stage is the prelims – which is objective type; the second stage consists of 4 written exams which are subjective and test one’s ability to write well, followed by an interview/personality test. The exam is intensive and requires the student to don the mantle of a judge and write proper orders/judgments. The preparations are strenuous but extremely fulfilling for someone who likes to grapple with legal issues.

HOW DID IT FEEL TO BE SUCH A YOUNG JUDGE? WHAT WAS THE TRANSFORMATION FROM BEING AN INDEPENDENT LITIGATOR TO A JUDGE LIKE? WHAT WERE THE FACTORS THAT WEIGHED ON YOU WHEN YOU MADE THIS DECISION?

On the day the results were declared, I was arguing a bail application before the High Court. I was ecstatic to find that I had not only cleared the exam but also aced the exam, in all the three successive stages. I was also the youngest at 23 (or rather, the least experienced!) in my batch. I must confess that I was on the horns of dilemma when the results came out. I enjoyed the practice of law immensely and it was hard to let go-of. After thinking days and nights on the trade-off involved, I finally came to the conclusion that ‘a life of reticence’ was a small cost to pay, to be given this opportunity to do so much good. The existing clients, who had reposed great faith in me, were naturally a little sad about it, but happily moved to my friends/associates who took my cases over, making my transition smooth. 

At 23, I took the oath of office on 28th May, 2013. The text still sends adrenaline rushing down my system, each time I read it, and the text will be incomplete if I don’t reproduce it in full :-

“I, Bharat Chugh, having been appointed a judge, do solemnly affirm that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Constitution of India as by law established; that I will uphold the sovereignty and integrity of India, that I will duly and faithfully and to the best of ability and knowledge and judgment perform the duties of my office without fear or favour, affection or ill- will and that I will uphold the constitution and the laws. “

As Wordsworth puts it ‘Bliss was in that dawn to be alive; to be young was very Heaven’. I took over my first judgeship assignment in June, 2014 as a Metropolitan Magistrate (NI Act), Tis Hazari. Life had come a full circle, so to speak; My father had started as a typist in Tis Hazari only, roughly four decades back, and I also began my career from here only as a judge. He was ecstatic to say the least. I had fulfilled the promise that I had made to him. I wanted and always tried to make a meaningful difference to people’s lives and hence took it up.

I did not find the transition very problematic. My essential duality as a lawyer, and the ability to argue both sides, was never a hindrance in judging. In fact, it helped me appreciate both sides of a question even better.

On the essential qualities of judging, As Socrates says ‘Four things belong to a judge: to hear courteously, to answer wisely, to consider soberly, and to decide impartially’ . This, I must confess, is an extremely tall order to go by, but I always tried to abide by this principle. The art of active listening isn’t easy, but once mastered, is worth its weight in gold. One learns a lot that way. I learnt so much from counsels who I had the privilege of hearing in different cases.

A judge’s life is not easy; it is, in a lot of ways, a hermit’s life. It requires reservoirs of patience that run deep and never dry up. Social Contact is quite limited. But all this, as I’ve said earlier, is a small cost to pay for being able to dispense justice.

I had the opportunity of writing judgments in countless cases, that kept the pangs of writing satisfied. Though arguing was something I always missed.

LAW STUDENTS ASPIRE TO JOIN PRACTICE, JUDICIARY OR THE CIVIL SERVICES BUT USUALLY TEND TO SHY AWAY FROM PROVIDING LEGAL SERVICES AND SEE IS AS A CHORE. IS SUCH AN ATTITUDE ADVISABLE?

No. Judicial Services or Civil Services is extremely fulfilling. It does require a lot of preparations but let us not forget that knowledge does not go to waste ever. Even if someone does not make it to the exam, the knowledge holds the student in great stead, throughout their lives. In a knowledge driven economy, the man with knowledge wins sooner or later. I know so many people who were extremely capable, but for some reason could not clear the exam, but armed with such great knowledge entered practice and did extremely well.

As regards litigation, I agree there are enormous challenges for a young litigator, and the going is extremely tough, atleast in the initial few years, especially if one has no legal background. It is also extremely demanding insofar as an individual lawyer has to divide his time between attracting clients and core legal work, however, nothing takes away from the fact that the struggle is extremely sweet, and those three minutes in court kind of justify everything.

CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT THE TRAINING YOU RECEIVED AT THE DELHI AND NATIONAL JUDICIAL ACADEMIES. IS THERE IN A NEED FOR REFORM IN TRAINING PROGRAMMES OF JUDGES?

After taking the oath of judgeship, I, along with my batchmates underwent one year of extensive induction training at the Delhi Judicial Academy, Dwarka which included – academic sessions as well as hands-on experience in court management, docket management and court craft. We, along with our seniors – presided over various judgeship assignments, such as : Civil Judge,, Guardianship Court, Metropolitan Magistrate, Crime Branch court, Special Court for cheque bounce cases, Special Court under the Prevention of Corruption Act, Sessions Trials etc. The Training at the Delhi Judicial Academy is truly transformative. The academy works as a think tank and training institute for newly recruited and existing judges.

I was also fortunate enough to be at the National Judicial Academy, Bhopal for a brief time and it was truly enlightening. One gets to interact with judges from across the country and exchange best court practices. It is an opportunity that no intern/scholar/judge should miss.

The training programmes are quite comprehensive and inter-disciplinary. It would be a great idea for the academies to also introduce courses in comparative legal positions in foreign countries and the psychological aspects of judging, heuristics and logical fallacies, which are extremely important for a judge to know.

ANY MEMORABLE JUDGING EXPERIENCES THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO SHARE WITH OUR READERS ?

There are many actually. There is one that I remember off-the-cuff. I was acting asa Railway Judge, for a brief time, as an additional charge (called the link judge), where I was aghast to find that young men and women were being prosecuted for begging/selling tea on the railway platform under an archaic provision of the Railways Act. This was a classic case of, what one author calls, ’Criminalisation of the Poor’. The sight of these unfortunate people mired in poverty, and disowned by the State moved me a lot. I gave voice to my anguish in one of my poems called the ‘Confessions of a young judge’. This gave me sleepless nights, and I had to find out a way to help them, of course within the framework of law. The relevant provision in the Railway Act clearly prohibited such an activity; However, convicting them will amount to me being a court of law and not a court of justice. Taking cue from Justice B.D.Ahmed’s remarkable judgment in Ram Lakhan v. State (2006), I dropped proceedings against many of these people, invoking the doctrine of ‘necessity’. I ruled that : A person was excused from the crime of begging, if he begs in order to save himself from starvation and a certain death. I wrote, with great anguish, that if the so called welfare state could not provide basic necessities for these people, it had no right to prosecute them. These orders were never challenged by the State before the higher echelons, which was undesirable insofar as a judgment by the High Court on this point would have had a wider coverage and could have provided a much needed security cover to these forgotten souls and benefits would have trickled down on a much wider scale.

THE JUDICIARY TODAY IS IN CRISIS DUE TO THE EXCESSIVE BACKLOG OF CASES. CAN MEDIATION BE A SOLUTION TO THIS CRISIS? IS THERE ANY OTHER FORM OF ADR WHICH CAN BE LOOKED UPON AS A POTENTIAL SOLUTION?

Backlog is a huge issue. Courts are crumbling under pressure. Too many cases on the board deprive cases of the personalised care and attention that they deserve. With such work pressure, it is indeed a challenge to maintain quality not just in the final judgment, but also in the process. I worked in my first assignment for one a half years. It was one of the heaviest courts with over 5000 cases; I managed to dispose of about 3800 cases in the first one and half years. I tried to implement new court and docket management strategies.

Mediation and ADR is, of course, the way forward, not because of the system’s inability to deliver timely justice, but because of the qualitative worth, finality and superiority of a decision arrived-at, by the parties themselves.

In order to further the cause of ADR, I also made a reference to the Hon’ble High Court of Delhi on a question of law relating to ‘Mediation/ADR in Criminal cases’. The reference was subsequently entertained, amici appointed to assist the court. A landmark decision is expected on that point which would streamline the mechanism of ADR in criminal cases !

YOU RECENTLY RETURNED TO THE PRACTICE OF LAW AFTER RESIGNING FROM JUDGESHIP. WHAT WERE THE FACTORS WHICH INFLUENCED YOU TO DO SO?

All in all, after a three and a half year, and a rather fulfilling stint at judging, I decided to once again return to the practice of law. I sorely missed being able to practice law in the last three and a half years. Once a lawyer, always a lawyer as they say ! I also missed being able to write and teach. Having fulfilled the promise made to my father, I had certain promises to keep with myself and this is but the first step in that direction. Whether I’ll be able to redeem those promises is something that time will tell. But, for now, as Shakespeare would say, there is method in my madness !

WHAT WOULD BE YOUR PARTING MESSAGE TO OUR READERS?

There is no substitute for hard work in law. I’ll quote Justice Joseph Story when he said “The law is a jealous mistress and requires a long and constant courtship. It is not to be won by trifling favors, but by lavish homage.”If you are able to do that – there is little else that you’ll need ever again !